Author Topic: Rogue Trader List  (Read 2296 times)

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Offline SeeDubEE

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Rogue Trader List
« on: June 18, 2014, 03:45:07 AM »
Hey everyone! First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to check out my first post on TheWarmaster.com! As you have probably already discerned, the purpose of this post is to help me tweak my Space Marines detachment for a local Rogue Trader Tournament happening here in about a month. For this event we are allowed only one primary detachment, no allies, no lords of war, no forge world. Any input would be greatly appreciated and considered. Otherwise, this post will help me keep my thoughts and progression clear as I move toward the event. There is a decent chance this might turn into a blog.

As far as my Warhammer 40k experience goes, I would classify myself as a hardcore-casual player. I have been playing for about 8 years, but I have only participated in maybe 20 tournaments in that time. My best finish was 3rd place. I always get slammed by the "good players", but I play well when desperate. I strongly prefer themed lists, but I also like to be competitive. The detachment I am planning on bringing is very themed, but I really want to finish on the podium this time...

Without further ado, I will post the list, then explain my reasoning and general strategy:

HQ
Pedro Kantor = 185 points

Troops
5-man Tactical Squad, Bare-bones, Rhino = 105 points
5-man Tactical Squad, Bare-bones, Rhino = 105 points

Elites
10-man Sternguard Squad, 5 Combi-meltas, Meltagun, Drop Pod = 325 points
10-man Sternguard Squad, 5 Combi-meltas, Meltagun, Drop Pod = 325 points
5-man Sternguard Squad, 2 Combi-meltas, Meltagun, Drop Pod = 185 points

Heavy Support
3-man Centurion Devastator Squad, 3 Chest Missile Launchers, Omniscope, Grav-cannon = 250 points


Thoughts:
I learned early on in my WH40K time that if you take drop pods, you take either 1 or all. I am breaking my rule, but I feel I have sound reasoning. On turn 1, I will have to have everything on the table, except for either 5 or 10 Sternguard Vets. This counteracts having only half of my firepower on the table early on. This also gives me the versatility to eliminate up to 3 or 4 enemy threats immediately, depending on which pods I decide to drop. Then, late game I will have an opportunity to surgically take out the enemy unit(s) that are going to prove to be a problem when the end is nigh.

Pedro will be with a Tac Squad or the Centurions. I plan on play-testing what will work best for me in the coming weeks. The main goal of these units will be to hide and shoots as much as possible while staying safe. Hopefully, with creative deep-striking, I can keep the Sternguard alive long enough to stay a problem for the entire game, and maybe even secure some objectives.

This is my first time using Centurions (just bought them), so I am also testing the weapon loadout that will work best. From what I have gathered reading articles so far, the above loadout seems to fit what I need the most. I left some points open in the list to adapt and change as I learn through trial and error.

Points are tight it seems, so I am going to try to get away with only have 3 Melta shots per 5 Sternguard. The way I see it, I have about a 50/50 chance of really hurting something with each salvo, so as long as I deploy well and focus my priorities (and roll decently) then I can eliminate what needs to be to keep me alive.

I am also tossing around the idea of dropping Pedro from the list and taking a different HQ, possibly a Librarian. I need to figure out how important so many scoring units will be during these games.



That is about all I can think of for now. I will update this post Saturday at the latest. I will be play-testing Friday night. I also really look forward to anything someone has to say. Thanks a lot. Happy Tuesday.

Offline SeeDubEE

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Re: Rogue Trader List
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 10:48:36 PM »
Yes, it is 7th edition rules.

Offline SeeDubEE

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Re: Rogue Trader List
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 11:32:21 PM »
Okay, thanks a lot for your input. I was considering this, so a little bit of confirmation will help me decide. I am thinking I definitely can NOT drop Pedro from the list now. =D

Offline Sadclown

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Re: Rogue Trader List
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2014, 02:02:33 AM »
Focusing on the troops would be a mistake as the FAQ changes Pedro Kantor to make the sternquard have objective secured. 

Grav cannons are cool but you don't have a delivery mechanism for the Centurions.  I think they would work better with the lascannons.

Offline Dirty Harry

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Re: Rogue Trader List
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2014, 02:54:33 AM »
Yes, Pedro's ability was faq'd to make it objective secured.
Don't try making a unit unkillable. its a waste of time and the dice gods laugh at you for wasting your time. Dedicate a unit to a job and make sure it does it til it's either dead or running.

Offline SeeDubEE

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Re: Rogue Trader List
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2014, 05:19:46 AM »
Wow, first off I want to thank everyone for contributing!

To clear up one point, the tournament rules for this event do NOT allow unbound armies.

@Ronnie Law: I have considered taking scouts instead of tacs. I will look into this option a bit more now. Razorbacks aren't really an option for me at this point. All of my razorbacks belong to my Space Wolves and I am much too slow/bad a painter to convert them to fit my Crimson Fists. Stormtalons are a similar story, but more due to my cheapskate-ism. The event mission specifics have yet to be released, but generally, I was planning on combat-squadding both 10-man groups of Sternguard with 3 meltas each in all non-kill point missions. I could easily swap the 5-man Sternguard squad's meltas for plasmas to be a terminator-hunter squad. I'm really liking that idea, actually. After using all of their one-use weapons, I was just planning on shooting Hellfire Rounds into anything vulnerable to poison.

This next part ties into what @Sadclown suggested. I have also been tossing around the idea of bringing an Aegis Defense Line. If i do this, I think a Lascannon Centurion Sergeant would mesh well. I could use his split-fire to target fliers with LC and quad-gun while the other Cents focus fire with the rest of my units. Imp Fists Chapter Tactics would really well in this because the sergeant can re-roll all of those dice.

Thanks again. I will continue to add/change/exchange ideas soon. =D

Offline SeeDubEE

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Re: Rogue Trader List
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2014, 05:58:04 AM »
Can Space Marines take Inquisitors like that with only 1 Primary Detachment and no allies? If so, where can I find that rule? Cause that would be great!

I really like that list you suggested. I plan on posting a new and improved list on Saturday. There is a good chance many of those elements will have worked their way in.

Lastly, Bolter Drill doesn't work with Special Issue Ammo. =(

Offline Sadclown

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Re: Rogue Trader List
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2014, 12:33:02 PM »
Single psykers are not worth their points in 7th edition.  Divination is a warp charge 2 power.  The math is showing you'll need six power dice to successfully cast the power. 

An alternative would be taking an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor with a psyoccolum this would make the squad he is in BS 10 against a unit with a psyker in it or the brotherhood of psykers rule, (there is an additional psyker related rule that I don't recale at the moment).  It's a 55 point gamble that your opponent will have a unit with a psyker in it.

As for the rules regarding inquisitorial detachments, they can be found in Codex: inquisition.  Given the cost, and how little you get in return I would not buy the book again.

Crimson Fist Pedro Lists are really tricky because it is so tempting to load up on sternguard.  The Crimson Fist themed list I would run at 1500 points would be

Pedro
Elites
2 x 5 Sternguard - 2 x combi-meltas, Drop Pod
Dreadnaught - multi-melta, storm bolter Drop Pod

Troops
4 x 5 Tactical Marines - Plasmagun
2 x 5 Scouts w/Bolters Land Speeder Storm

Fast Attack
3 x Assault Marines 2 x flamers, Drop Pod

But given you just grabbed those Centurions and want to try them out, and you're going for a sternguard sort of theme, I would do something like

Pedro
2 x 10 Sternquard - 4 x combi-melta, Drop Pod
Dreadnaught - mult-melta, storm bolter Drop Pod

2 x 5 Scouts w/Bolters in a Land Speeder Storm with Multi-melta

Devastator Centurions omniscope, missle launcher, lascannons
Aegis with Icarus Lascannon.

That leaves with 15 points for additional wargear hear and there (meltabombs maybe).

Offline SeeDubEE

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Re: Rogue Trader List
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2014, 03:41:21 PM »
Firstly, I talked to the event organizer and he said Inquisitor allies are NOT allowed. Too bad, I really liked that idea...

I got some practice in yesterday against a friend of mine playing Chaos Daemons. I'm not sure if this was a good or a bad match-up for me, but I managed to win by 1 point. The list I used was:

HQ
Pedro Kantor - 185

Troops
5-man Scout Squad, Landspeeder Storm with Multi-melta - 110
5-man Scout Squad, Camo Cloaks, Sniper Rifles - 70

Elites
Dreadnaught, PF, M-Melta, H Flamer, Drop pod - 145
10-man Sternguard Squad, 5 Combi-meltas, Grav-pistol, Meltagun, Drop pod - 340
5-man Sternguard Squad, 4 Combi-plasma, Grav-pistol, Plasmagun, Drop pod - 195

Fast Attack
8-man Assault Squad, Powerfist, Grav-pistol, Meltabombs, 2 Flamers, Drop pod - 191

Heavy Support
3-man Centurion Squad, Omniscope, 3 TL Lascannons - 260

Total - 1496


My opponent played mostly Khorne Daemons with a few Tzeentch Daemons mixed in for summoning and buffing. He was playing really well. I was having trouble killing his stuff between Grimoire of True Names and his insane invul saves (he avoided losing first blood by making 4 5-up invul saves on his Soulgrinder). On top of that he summoned, I think, 20 Bloodletters and about a dozen Pink Horrors (he was using the Glyph thing as well).

The scouts under-performed, in my opinion, but they stayed alive to secure objectives. I don't know if they could have against more shooty enemies though. The Cents did great! The lascannons didn't do anything after he made some clutch/lucky saves, but once things got close they began to shine. Hurricane bolters with Bolter Drill tore his daemons up. The real winners were the Assault Squad with Pedro. I have never been a fan of Assault Marines, but after @Sadclown suggested them I decided to give them a shot. I really want to keep them for Rogue Trader now, I just need to trim some of their options that I tried out that didn't really do much.

I want to thank everyone that has contributed thus far. You guys have really helped me trim a lot of the fat from my original post and home in on the "perfect" or at least "best-I-can-do" list. I'm taking all of your suggestions seriously and I have already found positive results from each of you.

One last topic I want to bring up: I began playing Crimson Fists in January 2010. Since then, I have learned to hate Pedro on the table, even though I love him in the fluff. He has crapped the bed so many times that the ONLY reason I ever bring him is to unlock scoring Sternguard. However, every single game I have used him in since 7th edition dropped, he has proven invaluable. I don't know what, if any, changes were made that made him so much better, but my opinion of him has changed much in the past month. Maybe his "ju-ju" just got a lot better this edition, or maybe he has just been working out to prepare for the influx of new Orkz. I am pretty sure that he will only get better once Orkz are a (more) common sight in the next couple weeks.

Offline SeeDubEE

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Re: Rogue Trader List
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2014, 01:34:20 AM »
Rogue Trader came and went already this past weekend. In all, I had a really good time and had a strong performance, even though the missions were a little screwy (in my humble opinion). The final list I brought was as follows!:

HQ
Pedro Kantor
Librarian - Melta Bombs, Force Stave

Elites
Venerable Dreadnaught - Missile Launcher, TL Lascannon
Ironclad Dreadnaught - PF, HF x2, Seismic Hammer, Drop Pod
Sternguard Vets - 10 man, CombiMelta x3, Meltagun, Drop Pod

Troops
Scouts - 5 man, Camo Cloaks, Sniper Rifles
Scouts - 5 man, Missile Launcher

Fast Attack
Assault Sqaud - 5 man, Flamer x2, Melta Bombs, Drop Pod

Heavy Support
Cent. Devs - Omniscope, TL Lascannon x3, Hurricane Bolters x3

Fortification
Aegis Defense Line - Quadgun



The first game was a pub-stomp, in my favor, against Chaos Marines with a slight Khorne flavor. Not much to say here, except that I got max points minus 1 (the missions had very strange bonus points, for example, the bonus point that I didn't get from this mission was "Seize the Initiative". My opponent elected to allow me first turn, so I didn't even have a chance at the extra point.).

The second game was against Tau. I deployed across from his ADL with mine in support range and dropped in his face. This match was long and bloody, leaving us both with very few models at the end of the game. This was a strange, house mission, "Pillage". Pretty much 6 objectives, but you get a point every turn you control an objective. The game ended in a true tie. Even points across the board. It was kind of sad, both of us had very strong lists, but we essentially took each other out of first-place contention.

The third game started off poorly for me, versus Tzeentch Marines. I failed all but one save on turn 1, and that one save still wasnt enough to keep my Ven Dread alive. I started to pull the game back in a little bit until his Lord rolled Ascension mid-game. After that he tore me up. Also, until that point I had never read Ahriman's FAQ, so I lost my Sternguard FAST! I refuse to ever blame luck for a win or a loss, so I consider Ahriman outplaying me badly. I deserved to not place after such a misstep.

The final game was the first Tactical Mission game I have ever played. It was terrible and I would go on record saying that Tactical Objectives have no place in a tournament setting. I will never play one again. Period.

The star unit of my list was definitely the Devastator Centurions! At least one survived every game, and with Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics they were constantly able to destroy vehicles and flyers. Each of my oponents remarked on them as well; calling them everything between an "amazing sleeper unit" to plain "IMBA." I would never play an Imperial Fists chapter without Cent Devs!

As a whole, I had a good time. Excluding the last game, I had a great time! Thanks again to everyone that helped me mold my list! /Bow