Author Topic: BIG NEWS!!!  (Read 4856 times)

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Offline mcphro

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BIG NEWS!!!
« on: August 09, 2014, 10:24:43 PM »
Terminators are cheaper, no Inquisition and any names chracters that have no models removed.. since 50% of grey knight armies use Mordrak (for the Mordrak bomb) and or Cortez (so that makes up a good portion of their models)... I think a lot of people are going to be pissed off... im sure there is more, and things like Halbards might be cheaper for other units like normal Grey knight units. But we shall see what occurs. the rumour is, the 3rd Installment of Sanctus Reach includes a Grey knight novel... so they have something to do with it!

http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/grey-knight-codex-information-released.html

http://waaaghgaming.de/informationen-zu-den-grey-knights/


Offline Angelic

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2014, 09:49:02 PM »
Sweet mystical Inquisitorial Exterminatus! This!! I am suddenly reconsidering my priorities.. Updates............
The Dance Without End Begins..

Offline mcphro

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 03:17:47 AM »
The current goss is...

http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/grey-knights-new-info-emerges-along.html

while they are getting rid of the characters they dont have models for, they will have the option to buy options to make them "like" them. So im hoping there is some sort of Mordrak type tele-porting option wargear that wont scatter etc...

It will be Marine specific... Well, at least I know ill only be taking the knights, Itll be easier to choose between units like 2 Dread-knights...

But what im really likeing is the weapon options seems to be standardized for all units...

"...halberd costs 2 pts for all units, falchions 4, warding staff 5 and hammer 10- The ranged weapons have been changed, flamer 5, psilencer 10, psycannon 15- The close combat weapons for the terminators cost the same as for the non terminators but ranged weapons are 5 points more"

soooo Grey knight Strike squads for me would be all Halbard armed (6-8 Halbards) with probably 2-4 Hammers... Im also hoping they fix psilencers so they are actually worth taking. I hear Terminators are around 33 pts as well, so with Halbards that wuold take them to 35pts... still 5 pts cheaper then normal... cool.

Someone said a Landraider might be an option for dedicated transports.. I hope so... It lets me take dreadnoughts and Dread-knights without using slots for my Heavy Support Tanks.

Have you noticed that at almost every level, there is a powered armored option and a terminator option for most levels of Grey Knights...

- Elites: already have Purifiers and Paladins..
- Troops: already have Strike Squads and Terminators...
- Fast Attack: Only have Interceptors...
- Heavy Support: Has purgation squads and Dreadknights

So, They think there are probably 2 new kits only, one being a vehicle. I'm hoping It will be a fast attack option because it is pretty bare. so far the lists read like this IF you take out the Inquisition...

If you look at the list.. where are the gaps that need filling?

HQ
Stern
Brotherhood Champion
Crowe
Brother Captain
Grand Master
Libby
Another character if they take out a few?

ELITES
Paladins
Purifiers
Techmarine
Dreadnaught

TROOPS
Strike Squad
Terminator Squad

FAST ATTACK
Interceptor Squad
Stormraven
My Money is on something for fast attack

HEAVY SUPPORT
Dreadnaught
Purgation Squad
Landraider
Landraider Crusader
Landraider Redeemer
Dreadknight

The Heavy Support seems filled out enough

LORD OF WAR
Drago

Thoughts? Its likely to come from something already existing from the SM isnt it?

Or maybe the better question is... What would you like to see...
- Grey Knight Centurions with Teleporters?
- Ultra Paladins?
- Some sort of Landspeeder Fast Attack with Psycannons?
- Hunter AA
- Predator with Psycannon side sponsons
- Grav bikes of some sort (since they tend to have technology others dont)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 04:34:46 AM by mcphro »

Offline MidiPWNZ

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 09:56:33 AM »

Offline mcphro

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 10:13:28 AM »
well done... so confirmed!

Offline Angelic

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 08:54:29 PM »
I really don't think we're going to see any specifically Space Marine style entries in the codex. Grey Knights always have unique units, or at least VERY unique variations of units, for example our Power Armoured guys starting with Storm Bolters and Force Weapons, not to mention they have Psychic Powers.

I would love to see something NEW, something exciting! If they really are making about the Grey Knights themselves now, I want to see that brought out.
The Dance Without End Begins..

Offline hillshire

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 12:34:55 AM »
I have yet to see anything in these rumors that is a plus for Grey Knight players beyond expected tweaks in points costs and wording (which may not be plusses at all in some cases). Which could just as easily be handled through a simple update of the digital codex. What I do see are rumors that about a third or more of the units are going to be ripped out of the dex with nothing to replace them with. Why exactly would any Grey Knights player want to buy into that? How exactly does having fewer choices work to our advantage?

Granted, these are just rumors so far, so I'm not going down the rabbit hole with speculation. But dreading the release of a new codex should not be the effect GW is going for. Hopefully it's not an exercise in select and delete, here's your codex. Hopefully there's more (new units and models) and less (not wiping out whole sections of the codex) to this.

Also, I'm not impressed with the rumors that Daemons get a boost vs Grey Knights, although I'm fine with a well thought through implementation. My concern is that I'm paying a large premium in points for all of these special rules that Grey Knights come with. And now the primary reason I'm paying that premium, fighting daemons, gets a free upgrade? Why not give an army that fights Imperial Knights Tank Hunter then? Or extra dispel dice when fighting Eldar? Maybe invulnerable saves vs Tau since they can Ignores Cover so easily with massive firepower?

I am not fond of negativity. And really, it's too early to tell how things will shake out. But right now, there's very little to look forward to and quite a bit to be concerned about. I really hope that improves.

Offline Bowlzee

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 01:30:11 AM »
I don't see a problem with removing Inquisition from the Codex, they already have their own dex. You can easily recreate your current lists with 2 Codex.

I would also like to see Assassins removed to use their own codex. It will make it easier for other armies to use them then, without having to pay an inquisition tax for them. It's much fluffier and makes more sense as their are no inquisition or assassins in the Grey Knight command structure...

Having a boost to Daemons would be pretty cool, and make a better narrative. Having something similar to troops going back into reserves once destroyed could be very fun and represent Grey Knights turning up at the last minute to shut a Warp Gate etc


Offline mcphro

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 04:33:55 AM »
I think my issue is that Im going to have to pay (In Australia) 85 bucks for a codex that has just been chnaged around...

One of the issues my mates talk about buying the $140.00 "The Rules" 7th Ed, is the other 2 books. SERIOUSLY! just sell the rulebook and if people want to buy the fluff.. fine...

+++RANT INCOMING+++
I agree with what people are saying, but not the implications of it. If I want Inquisition, assassins and Grey knights, I ll need to own 3 codexs. For us in Australia, thats $85 x 3... just for the books. No models.. just the books. What the Hell man!... Ive got mates saying.. come play infinity, they give you the rules for free.... Its not that I would do that (hell id do it anyway if its free), but GW and War-hammer needs to convince me its in my entertainments interests to do that...I agree with the comment above... we should be feeling elated etc now downtrodden that more content is coming out.

Im not sure GW at the moment is about releasing new content per say, they are in repair vs chapterhouse mode. Rip all rules out without models... as a company, isnt their focus supposed to be on me(us)? Thats why they cant get their crap together, build and educate via digital content, talk and converse with their playing fans... Banshees... why no grenades? Its not the fact hey dont have grenades, its the SILENCE of GW, the deafening silence that they wont talk about it. Their videos on you tube are all about fluffy how to paint etc.. thats nice, but I dont understand why they hate their own company... they themselves say "We dont do digital social media very well..." Well get with the game poeple, we are all on this thing called the internet now!

On sorry about the rant, but when I have to defend GW to my wife who asks me "why do you support a company that treats you like that"... Im not sure I have an answer for her. It just so happens I have a choice to extend and support my Grey Knights army, or build space wolves because I bought 60 marines off a mate a few moneths back pretty cheap...

Id be pretty disapointed if they released a Grey Knight codex thats just minor tweaks to the rules. As stated... release it digitally. But why would I pay another $85 for a codex that has just ripped the guts out of it?

A mate said to me once, GW is really easy to understand. Everything they do is about selling models. everything else makes sense after that. Just look at the Chaos Daemons release and Malefic powers for that...

However, I for one am not going to beat myself up about it. Grey Knights it is, I hope they are cheaper, so I can take more of them! I see lots more terminators in my future...

Offline hillshire

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 09:08:09 AM »
I don't see a problem with removing Inquisition from the Codex, they already have their own dex. You can easily recreate your current lists with 2 Codex.

I would also like to see Assassins removed to use their own codex. It will make it easier for other armies to use them then, without having to pay an inquisition tax for them. It's much fluffier and makes more sense as their are no inquisition or assassins in the Grey Knight command structure...

Having a boost to Daemons would be pretty cool, and make a better narrative. Having something similar to troops going back into reserves once destroyed could be very fun and represent Grey Knights turning up at the last minute to shut a Warp Gate etc

I have seen similar thoughts in other forums. I can only conclude that their presenters do no play Grey Knights.

"I don't see a problem with removing Inquisition from the Codex, they already have their own dex. You can easily recreate your current lists with 2 Codex. "

Actually, no, I could not recreate my current lists by combining the two. But rather than focusing narrowly on my lists, let's look at the general effect losing a third or more of the current codex would have.

1. You would have to buy another codex (Inquisition), probably a second eventually (Assassins), to achieve something similar while receiving, so far, nothing in return. Why is that considered "not a problem"?

There seems to be an assumption that 40k players own every codex, rulebook, and supplement. Those days are long over for most of us. Which is fine, we can focus on our own armies and read about the others on line then learn a lot facing them on the battle field. Even that, however, becomes more difficult when your codex gets split into three.

And I do not consider downloading illegal pdfs a solution at all. It's illegal, unreliable, and easily doctored. Someone showing me a stolen pdf to prove whatever stat they're arguing is not proof at all.

2. The Inquisitional Henchmen aren't quite the same. Mostly, yes. But there are at least two critical differences. First, the Banisher is gone. A useful model vs daemons which makes perfect sense for a Grey Knight army. Second, Death Cult Assassins in the Inquisition codex are limited to power swords which limits the DCA to anti PAE (Power Armor and Equivalents). No more axes for taking down TAEs (Terminator Armor and Equivalents) or power mauls for breaking into vehicles. Yet another case of assault being badly weakened. DCA armed with a mix of weapons boosted by a techmarine or champion make for a very effective Swiss army knife. No longer if the rumors hold true. And again, what replaces them? So far nothing. Again, how is this "not a problem"?

3. Being divided into two separate books forces you to take another HQ. Granted you can get an Inquisitor for 25 pts but he (or she) is fairly useless bare-bones. At 55 pts she (or he) becomes a psyker which makes him/her more useful but it's still points you're forced to spend to work towards what you could already achieve previously.

4. Currently, most tournaments are limiting players to two sources. The implications of having the GK codex split into three should be too obvious to warrant discussion.

"I would also like to see Assassins removed to use their own codex"

Again, added cost for not benefit to the GK player. Having an Assassins codex would be a good thing, similar to Imperial Knights. Most likely without Warlord traits and stuff. There's just no particular need or reason for it to be removed beyond simplifying the update load for GW.

"Having a boost to Daemons would be pretty cool, and make a better narrative. Having something similar to troops going back into reserves once destroyed could be very fun and represent Grey Knights turning up at the last minute to shut a Warp Gate etc"

That sounds all fun and reasonable until you think about it. As I discussed previously, you're forcing the Grey Knights player to pay premium points to give a free boost to Daemons. Grey Knights are already very points intensive, making it hard (and now even harder if the rumors are true) to field a decent size force. Then you want to give Daemons an endless wave of troops? On top of their ability to summon even more? I'm sure that would be great fun for the Daemon player.

Oh, you finally killed those pink horrors? I don't even care because those are coming back on next turn. Meanwhile, let me pick what I want to summon this turn . . .

Meanwhile, the GK player feels every loss because every unit he has is very expensive and cannot be replaced. And he probably had 20 or less models to start with. And it's not like GK is an auto win vs Daemons. Not even close.

And where would you draw the limit? What if it's a small contingent of GK allies?

I'm just not buying into it. GK already have the points for their special rules built in, just like all of the other armies. I don't see the point of giving my enemy free advantages just because those special rules I pay for regardless of who I'm facing finally become active.

Offline The Scribe

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2014, 01:24:01 PM »
Damn! You guys beat me to it! I put my ideas in this video, and linked it back to this page 
--> 7th Edition New Grey Knights Codex: 23 August 2014

Offline zatazuken

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2014, 06:59:13 PM »
Part of me says that I should feel terrible that the GK are losing the Inquisition and the assassins. However, I then glance at my Sororitas book...oh wait.

They are getting the same treatment as the Sisters when it comes to the units in the book. When the Inquisition codex came out I thought everyone saw this coming? Things change and it's really best to just go with it. Yes, my Grey Knights will have to play differently now, but that is just how things are. At least the GK are getting a book. An actual book. Not some hashed over eBook filler.

Offline hillshire

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2014, 12:31:32 AM »
So, I was thinking through the long range options you're left with if your playing "pure" Grey Knights. Because, as we all know, GK are great within 24". But beyond that you're looking at vehicles, mostly through costly upgrades. With the loss of Henchmen you have no infantry that can shoot beyond 24". Well, except a conversion beamer on certain ICs which means they can never move if you want to get the shot off. Lovely.

Anyway, it hit me. Without henchmen, GK become rather limited. Not quite one dimensional but no longer a well rounded army. Which has been a trend in a lot of recent "codex" releases.

The traditional ones like Orks and Space Marines are what we expect of a codex, a well rounded (I know that can be debated but compared to other codexes, it's fair to say that's their intention) army which has a theme and style of play. With varying levels of success.

But others are clearly not meant to be complete armies. Rather, they are intended to be combined with other forces. The Legion of the Damned "codex" is a great example. It is literally unplayable by itself due to having no units on the battle field during the first game turn, it's an automatic loss. Imperial Knights can be played by themselves but are truly one dimensional and are clearly intended to be used as allies most of the time. Inquisition almost works but it's not well rounded enough. When was the last time you saw a battle report on Youtube with pure Inquisition? Even battle forces with Inquisition allies are uncommon.

The definition of a codex, at least in my mind, has changed. It you used to be a complete army (again debatable) that was balanced enough to compete against other codex armies. Now it's simply a collection of rules for a collection of models. Which would have been called supplements in the past. Maybe GW feels they will sell better if they have the status of "codex".

My question is, where is this going? Is there an actual plan behind this? Will there eventually be a balanced grand design? Or is GW just putting out enough rules to get by for the models they have hoping it will work out?

Offline Angelic

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2014, 04:13:06 AM »
Everyone has valid concerns here and honestly I share a lot of them, however, the codex isn't out there yet, we don't even have much beyond the rumours of the removal of Henchman and Assassins. Yes GW will have to give us extra units to make up for this, but either way, speculation is just that, speculation!

I'm more interested in what new units they could add, our lack of Long Range was mentioned, so how do you think GW will fill this hole? I'm assuming they will in the interest of selling models and I saw it was mentioned briefly on Naftka.

Also, it looks like Purifiers and Paladins are getting their own kits, given the treatment Wolf Guard and Skyclaws got with the Space Wolves release, will we possibly see some very awesome new sculpts?

Let's try to stay positive guys^^

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Offline FalleN

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Re: BIG NEWS!!!
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2014, 09:17:38 AM »


Also, it looks like Purifiers and Paladins are getting their own kits, given the treatment Wolf Guard and Skyclaws got with the Space Wolves release, will we possibly see some very awesome new sculpts?

Let's try to stay positive guys^^

The leaked pics from the WD show they are just repackaged none of them are new sculpts tho the Strike squad will have 10 models and looks to be a little cheaper than buying 2 of the current 5 model kits.

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