Author Topic: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf  (Read 1547 times)

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Online Odras

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Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« on: November 17, 2017, 02:48:14 AM »
I think salty is an understatement at the moment. I have played exclusively Ynnari since they came out as they really closely represented my view of the Eldar(Aeldari) race as a whole and this nerf has in my opinion completely gutted them as a faction. However complaining on the internet isn't going to get me anywhere so I thought I would ask you guys your thoughts on the Ynnari after we rolled a 1 to save against the nerf bat.

Will you still use them?
If you are using them, how are you using them?
What are you changing from how you previously ran them?

My thoughts are that yes they can still be used, but more as an add-on to a craftworld army rather than as an army of their own. I am thinking at this point in time I will run the Yncarne + 10 wraithguard (D-scythes, single squad) + whatever else I need to make up my detachment. I think the key with Ynnari now will be running large squads to get the most out of limited soul bursts. The problem with running a large wraithguard squad with D-Sccythes is how to get them to the enemy. They can't take a serpent and they probably won't survive the walk across the board so that leaves webway strike. The only option I can see is dropping them in and attempting to cast quicken on them to get them in range, but relying on a WC7 power to go off for my 450 point unit to be able to do something isn't an idea I really relish.

Online DCannon4Life

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Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 09:16:07 AM »
Ynnari, until (if/when) they get their own codex, will be relegated to filling a small detachment of an otherwise Craftworld army, pushed into the role that Harlequins used to occupy. As Ynnari could only continue to get more and more powerful as Dark Eldar, Eldar, and Harlequins get/got their codices, it makes sense to nerf it.

The out-of-phase actions mechanic was problematic in more than one way, you can expect any future iteration of SfD to NOT allow for acting in the opponent's turn--or maybe just once, for CPs, like an intercept Stratagem or something. This part of the nerf hurts, and it is a massive correction, but it's necessary.
First, you must learn Balance. --Miyagi

Offline mcphro

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Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 04:20:53 PM »
so let me get this right. Since you can only do (1) of the 4 strength from death powers. You are better taking a patrol detachment with Yvaine , cheap troop and wraithguard, run them up in a wave serpent. Hop out, and you get to shoot normally first once, kill a unit, use strength from death again, to shoot again. Then pretty much thats it a turn. As long as its a wrathguard type unit thats probably still ok, but you just cant do it army wide anymore.

am i correct?

Offline Chmmr_X

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Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 09:30:05 PM »
I personally feel that the nerf is akin to making Ork boys 15 pts each. It kills the flavour of the army completely to oblivion much like what the Index did to Craftworld Aeldari (on a side note, I still feel the -1 BS to move and shoot heavy weapons for our vehicles is nonsense. It kills the notion of them being a fast strike force killing on the move) but the Craftworlders are at least much more playable now due to Craftworld attributes, stratagems and point reductions.

But back to Ynnari: It bites big time. The army plays as a high risk high return kind of army since soul burst is only a 7" ability which only infantry and bikes get to utilise. Since the Aeldari are generally squishy, they die quickly and benefit from their deaths. They don't have numbers so they cannot keep dying, that's for sure. So for the army to only do one of each Soulburst ability once per turn, it causes the army to have a very high risk strategy with very low rewards, it's not worth it. You are almost effectively suiciding your unit for a one time use ability. Why suiciding? Well, you are basically within 7" of whatever you killed and the next turn, they'll die. And Eldar units are not cheap. The cheap ones don't have enough damage output. In the end, it's just an "OH! I got that ability." bonus rule than a "YEAAA!! I got that rule!"

At least battle focus, despite other races having better battle focus rules than Eldar, will be far more useful than this poor excuse of a faction rule.

So yea, that's my rant. In the end, I don't see myself using Ynnari any time soon.

Online Odras

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Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 11:05:48 PM »
so let me get this right. Since you can only do (1) of the 4 strength from death powers. You are better taking a patrol detachment with Yvaine , cheap troop and wraithguard, run them up in a wave serpent. Hop out, and you get to shoot normally first once, kill a unit, use strength from death again, to shoot again. Then pretty much thats it a turn. As long as its a wrathguard type unit thats probably still ok, but you just cant do it army wide anymore.

am i correct?

Not quite, with the FAQ you are now limited to one of each soulburst action in your turn, therefore you can soulburst up to 5 times but you can only do each of the allowed actions once. So one soulburst and shoot, one soulburst and move, one soulburst and fight, one soulburst and psychic power, one soulburst and charge.

The out-of-phase actions mechanic was problematic in more than one way, you can expect any future iteration of SfD to NOT allow for acting in the opponent's turn--or maybe just once, for CPs, like an intercept Stratagem or something. This part of the nerf hurts, and it is a massive correction, but it's necessary.
Why do you think this correction was necessary? To me it was completely unnecessary, both on the internet and locally where I play I saw very little complaint about soulburst. Yea sure if you were able to set up a nice combo then it could destroy half of someones army, but there is so many of those combos in this game that this one doesn't feel any worse than.

Online DCannon4Life

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Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2017, 03:01:04 PM »
During 7th edition, at a large tournament (AdeptiCon), the following issue arose due to the mechanical instability inherent in the SfD/Soulburst rules: During DEPLOYMENT (so, pre-game), a Genestealer Cult unit deploying in accordance with its quirky rules destroyed an Ynnari unit that was within 7" of a Wraithknight. The Ynnari player wanted to Charge during Deployment...at which point the game breaks. I suppose you don't have to arrive at the same conclusion that I arrived at, which is that SfD/Soulburst was not properly described (parameters/limitations/triggers/conditionals) as written.
First, you must learn Balance. --Miyagi

Online Odras

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Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 08:16:19 PM »
During 7th edition, at a large tournament (AdeptiCon), the following issue arose due to the mechanical instability inherent in the SfD/Soulburst rules: During DEPLOYMENT (so, pre-game), a Genestealer Cult unit deploying in accordance with its quirky rules destroyed an Ynnari unit that was within 7" of a Wraithknight. The Ynnari player wanted to Charge during Deployment...at which point the game breaks. I suppose you don't have to arrive at the same conclusion that I arrived at, which is that SfD/Soulburst was not properly described (parameters/limitations/triggers/conditionals) as written.

I agree, in 7th edition it was fairly unclear, and even in 8th edition at first it was unclear. Pre-nerf 8th edition though, I thought  it was actually very clear when you got to soulburst and what you got to do. The only people that had problems were those that hadn't read the rules properly. Admittedly you did have to go to about 3 different places to get all those rules, but they were there and it was quite clear.

To me this is not a justification for the nerf even if it was very unclear. It could be fixed with some clarification, which is what they have done since 8th edition launched.

Offline Rob40k

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Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 10:02:42 PM »
soulburst was easily abused. so it was "fixed.

Eldar are still a power house codex without it, soulburst just made it better.

Even with the nerf this weekend alone I was playing to win a tournament and a big event here in the UK was also very Ynnari heavy towards the top tables, with the eventual winner being Ynnari and had 9 Ynnari armies in the top 20.

as for stratagies. Build soulburst around 1 unit. I took a unit of 10 Dark reapers, so they could make use of Yvraines psychic soul burst and they worked a treat.

Online Warseer_Kaelrich

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Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 05:28:54 PM »
In 7th during a league when the unfair first came to be I was tabling people turn 1.5 to 2.5. Usually this happened with howling banchees from a raider and flooding my opponents gun lines. Then soulbursting into the next unit. Followed by inch hi with an starch doing the same thing to another squad. It was nuts how quickly the army an an reader through marines. I can see the reason to nerf. But a good ynnari army will be using all 5 per turn anyway. This just makes 8th ed more complicated.