Author Topic: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain  (Read 2007 times)

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Offline Fritz40K

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Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« on: July 23, 2013, 11:21:21 AM »
Here is a question regarding Y-stealers that even I need some help with....

I'm not trying to meta the game or rules lawyer it, just wondering...

If I have a group of y-stealers can they bust out of the terrain my opponent placed such as a defense line- if all the bases can touch it?

I'm trying to find out the yes or no of it, and can't really see anything online about it.
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Offline mattblowers

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 12:06:39 PM »
I don't know about a ADL or other 'bought' battle placements, they seem to be more a part of their army as they are models they purchased.  Good question.  I'd think not, though you could terrain placed for board setup.  IMO that's what makes Y-stealers awesome, they make your opponent think  about where to place their troops.
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Offline Lublek2

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2013, 07:58:25 PM »
yes they can. the ADL is classified as terrain. so if they leave enough space to fit some guys in you can.

Offline NidsAndMarines

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 11:11:04 AM »
I'd love to say yes, because it would just be so funny to see the look on the smug faces of a PCS or some Longfangs when a squad of of ymgarls 'appears' from their own ADL. However, the rules for ymgarls say they have to 'appear' in a piece of area terrain and an ADL is either bought (so is a fortification) or is already on the battlefield (so is battlefield debris) which seems to me to preclude them coming into play this way. I'd be happy to be wrong on this but it seems like yet another issue for us nids to overcome.

Offline Lublek2

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2013, 07:47:10 PM »
ok, so you cant deploy them in the ADL normally from what i have read.... but if the ADL is on a board or something you can place them inside and outside of the wall, because that makes it "an area terrain feature" according to the big rule book. this means it has a defined boarder. The Tyranid codex says Y-stealers have to be able to fit the entire squad inside the boundaries of such terrain features. So it is possible to have them appear in the ADL through this supposed loophole. This could be costly to your squad because a large amount of your models will most likely die due to lack of space :/

Just make sure to talk about defined boundaries of terrain with your opponent.

Offline badseed

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 11:10:59 AM »
If an opponent tried such a thing with me I would not allow it unless he could show me a rule saying he could.  My arguement would be that it is a paid for asset like a squad or tank despite being terrain and as such not part of the regular game table.  However if it was placed on an existing terain there would be no arguement at all.

Offline mattblowers

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 03:17:56 PM »
If an opponent tried such a thing with me I would not allow it unless he could show me a rule saying he could.  My arguement would be that it is a paid for asset like a squad or tank despite being terrain and as such not part of the regular game table.  However if it was placed on an existing terain there would be no arguement at all.

Don't know if you have the choice to not allow it.  The BRB says you place bought fortifications before any other terrain, implying that it might be terrain.  The FAQ lists AGL the same as battlefield debris, so the question would be battlefield debris.  I think the biggest issue is that they can't fit in the AGL and so it would be an illegal placement.  However, a bastion is a different matter.
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Offline badseed

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 03:44:40 PM »
If an opponent tried such a thing with me I would not allow it unless he could show me a rule saying he could.  My arguement would be that it is a paid for asset like a squad or tank despite being terrain and as such not part of the regular game table.  However if it was placed on an existing terain there would be no arguement at all.

Don't know if you have the choice to not allow it.  The BRB says you place bought fortifications before any other terrain, implying that it might be terrain.  The FAQ lists AGL the same as battlefield debris, so the question would be battlefield debris.  I think the biggest issue is that they can't fit in the AGL and so it would be an illegal placement.  However, a bastion is a different matter.
I suppose it is all about interpretation and you said it yourself  theBRB only implys which gives room for debate.  I have found if I let the rules lawyers always have their way I always lose so a hard and fast rule is the only way I would agree to such a thing if it is in the FAQs so be it.  I have been rolled enough times by those rules weasels to know you have to stand up for your own interpretation.

Offline Lublek2

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 10:05:18 PM »
in the Tyranid codex says Y-stealers can elect to start the game in a dormant state provided there is at least 1 piece of area terrain large enough to accommodate the entire unit( be sure to discuss with your opponent what the boundaries of all such terrain features are before the game begins). page61in codex.

after both sides deploy the y-stealer player selects a terrain piece after both sides deploy. he writes it down then when they would "appear" they all come onto that terrain piece. If any would be within the terrain and within 1in of an enemy or would be on impossible terrain they are destroyed. page61 in codex.


since ADL are debris they are a terrain piece
if they have a defined edge the Y-stealers can "appear" in that terrain in accordance to the big rulebook and the FAQ listing.

i do not know if they can if there is not a defined boarder you must talk to the opponent about it. but remember if you would say no you probably will loose points for not being a cool opponent hurting your overall points in the tournament or they will hold you very strict to the rules. just something you should keep in mind ;)

Offline mattblowers

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2013, 10:04:32 AM »
i do not know if they can if there is not a defined boarder you must talk to the opponent about it. but remember if you would say no you probably will loose points for not being a cool opponent hurting your overall points in the tournament or they will hold you very strict to the rules. just something you should keep in mind ;)

I play 'nids so I wouldn't be the one saying no.  I actually feel the opposite of you.  I feel like you have to rule lawyer the other guy to argue that Y-stealers could hide in an ADL.  Looking at the models, it is clear that they cannot fit in the line. For goodness sake look at the size of a genestealer compared to the width of an ADL, there's no way you can physics theory them in there.  The way I read the 'dex, if they couldn't physically fit in the terrain, you can't use the terrain.  Ie, you can't have 10 of them pop out of a small rock.
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Offline Lublek2

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Re: Y-Stealers & Fortifications + Terrain
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2013, 10:33:59 PM »
as i mentioned it would have to have a defined border as in they make a square, or they put it on a base a straight line wouldnt work.