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Messages - Dihunter2

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Where are you located??

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40K Rules Questions / Re: Librarius Conclave
« on: May 12, 2016, 12:10:38 PM »
Draco you missed something very important there.... I did not reach the end of the phase, you are correct....


They can not cast UNTIL the end of the phase. the word UNTIL means by definition " Up To" ... This is important. Up to is the connection between the real physic phase and the end of the physic phase. Your chart talks about the end of the physic phase.

  So what happens right before that?? what is leading "up to" the end of the phase... Or what is waiting until the end of the physic phase to happen??    this is....

"other models from this Formation within 12" of the nominated model cannot manifest psychic powers until the end of the phase."

so according to the rules at written the non librarians need to wait "up to" the end of the physic phase. So again that is not happening in the end phase, because we never reached it... Also we can't cast spells in the end phase. 

Lets try it this way.... say we are at lunch, eating cheese and cracker plate.. (awesome by the way) and i said "wait until the end of lunch to try the mango cheese."     I would say you wait "until" lunch is about to be over, the you take the bite of mango cheese as your last... Then you call the waiter to pay the check and collect the plates because lunch is over....   By your definition you would wait "until the end of the lunch" (phase)  means calling the waiter over, giving him the card, then pulling the cheese off the plate as he is trying to clean up. (casting a spell during the end phase, or clean up)  I would completely agree that you should not eat of the plate in the waiter hand, that is rude...  Waiting until the end of lunch, to take that last bite, then calling the waiter and ending the mean... That seems to me like the correct way to handle things... So why can't the same logic apply??

The librarians wait "until" the end of the phase... So the last thing in the phase, or the action that leads "up to" the end phase should be, my other librarians from the formation casting spells.   

So it seems that draco will be hard pressed to change his thought on the wording... Does anyone else have different thought with it explained this way??   (also thats for that chart, i love the beginning,  middle, and end labeling)

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Discussion: Dark Angels / Re: How can Dark Angels deal with Eldar?
« on: May 11, 2016, 10:59:41 PM »
I have been a long time Dark Angel player, and my younger brother, and my main opponent took Eldar. I know exactly the issues that you face, dame space elves and their guns. So if you don't mind please give me a quick list of your army. There are some options that can be used, but it will almost always be an uphill battle.

My favorite option is taking the full drop pod army in the battle company. Using this gives you control of almost the entire board, and then it is a game of attrition. You can get the basic company for 880 points, then it takes 50 points (i think off top of head)  of snipers to make a legal army. so even at 1000 points you can field this army. This army is all basic squads of 5 units, and HQ that contain no upgrades. Drop the pods on an objective, and walk the squad out front slightly to defend it. All you do it stay hidden and stay alive... it is not a super exciting army to play, but even eldar has an issue shooting every marine off the board. Razorbacks are great options for some back field objectives, but against eldar they will go fast.  Once you have your basic attrition army then you take small strike force to target your enemy for that day...

I enjoy the ravening strike force?? (the one at the end of the book) This one is nice because every unit enters the board turn 2. Against eldar i would suggest this formation with atleast 1, possibly more of the Dark angel jets. I found that does not do a great job with Anti Air. Having 2 Neflin jet fighters entering the board edge turn 2 will be noticed. The raven wing are very tough, and can do fairly specialized damage. When i fight MC i take Grav, against the Imperial titan i take melta.. they have great options, but you need the tactical marines to hold objectives.


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40K Rules Questions / Re: Librarius Conclave
« on: May 11, 2016, 10:42:25 PM »
i am not trying to preform a physic spell after any of those events. I think YOU do not understand the rule... lets read again.

“Empyric Connection: At the start of the Psychic phase, you can nominate one model from this Formation. If you do this, the nominated model has access to any psychic powers known by other models from this Formation within 12" until the end of the phase; however, other models from this Formation within 12" of the nominated model cannot manifest psychic powers until the end of the phase.”

until the end of the phase is completely different then happening inside the end phase (we already discussed how 40k does not have an active end phase ) so more importantly here is my physic phase and YOU tell me whats wrong...

1) i elect to nominate my librarian to use  Empiric Connection
2) he targets you and cast spell, roll a bunch of dice and what not...
3) he gets to cast a second spell, roll more dice take some more time...
4) my other librarian, that was not nominated castes his spell.
5)  I no longer have any warp charges, or active librarians... enter your chart here.

So if you look at that phase, what happened at the end of the phase??

 As far as i can tell, the non nominated librarian, during that listed physic phase cast their spells at the end pf the physic phase. (Exactly like the rule says is needs to do) 

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40K Rules Questions / Re: Librarius Conclave
« on: May 11, 2016, 11:01:59 AM »
It just seems strange to me that everyone wants to know where permission is given that would allow the other librarians to cast. meanwhile the rule itself says (hopefully close) they can not cast until the end of the physic phase. how is the not seen as permission right there? It doe not say they can't cast... It says they have to wait until the end pf the phase.     

   Then we get into how you can't cast in that phase, unless permission if given, re-read the rule...  Now the FAQ says that the one channeling can only cast 2 spells... (mastery lvl) so it will nerf it even more.... Or will it. The rule also states that the "channeling" librarian can cast any spell known buy the other librarians...

This to me means 2 things... 1) he can try to cast more then 2 spells because there are more then 2 spells known by the combined librarians.... 2) he can try to manifest invisibility more then once. 

All three of these things are given permission by the original wording of the rules. It says he can cast all the spells, it also says that the other librarians can cast at the end of the phase....

I do nto understand how when games workshop prints the words people can just question it...  read the rules, it gives them permission to cast at the end pos the phase... Does it say they can't cast?? nope, it just says when they can cast.

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I would start off going in a different direction. Like you hear many places, terminators are not that effective on the board. Collect some tactical squads with drop pods, and bring some bikes along for the ride. Your tac will start arriving turn 1, and your bikes will be there turn 2.. 

either way dark angels excel at board control. They are not always the most effective at killing, as far as space marine chapters, but they have some good extras. The main thing there is the Ravening. Our bikes are better then anyone else out there, so they are almost a guarantee include. If your not a huge fan of the bikes/landspeders, that is find you don't need that many.  One of the best things the ravening can do, is everything auto arrives on turn 2. So if you take 3 jets, you don't start rolling for them, all 3 hit the board turn 2 ready to go... It is fairly nice.

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Discussion: Space Marines / Re: Tips for a New Player Army list
« on: May 04, 2016, 12:33:36 PM »
I would highly suggest waiting on the names HQ, and just starting with a basic company master. It will take a few games to truly understand and learn all of the rules, and it would be a bit easier to do so if you can limit the special rules for a few games. This also applies to the librarian as well.

If you are going to be starting a marine army, i would highly recommend finding a later formation that you want to build up into. Other wise you run the chance of collection 1000 points of models, then moving to a new army and disregarding 300 points.. So for your list i would suggest you start by dropping the predator, the terminators, and the names HQ.

Everything else on the list fits into a Battle Demi Company. That is a large formation and is very strong. The free razorbacks/drop pods are very nice. It is a bit to build and use but is a lot of fun. I would not recommend going into a full bike army unless you look into the Dark angel Ravenwing, but you did not seem so interested in that. In the Space Marine codex there is a formation that uses several tanks and a techmarine. That is a fun formation to run if you wanted to field several tanks. 

I know you won't be able to build and field one of the big formation right away. I would suggest you buy a few squads that fit into the one you one to one day field, this way your not wasting money on models your not going to use....

So again based upon the list you had, drop the named units from above, and add a company master and command squad, second Dread maybe. That way if you like the feel of that small army, you can build up to a 1500 Battle-demi company and use everything you already bought.

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40K Rules Questions / Re: Librarius Conclave
« on: May 03, 2016, 12:09:25 PM »
So i play Dark angels, so that is my reference...

If the other librarians are not able to cast the spells (like the codex says it can) that bring in some other issues...

If i have 4 librarians in the conclave, and only 1 is able to cast, then he can only get 2 spells off??  So what is the point of paying all the points in order to only preform 2 spells a turn. Also with my DA it makes the Primary spell more powerful. Thats great, but he can only cast it once. So if the rules stay as everyone here thinks, the formation is complete garbage. 4 librarians get together and can try to cast 2 spells wth a better warp charge rate??

It would be better to take just 4 librarians, and try to cast up to 8 spells. It just seems to me that if the other librarians are not able to cast, the formation is completely useless. Just way to many points, puts to many independent characters on the board, and they all stand around and try for 2 spells per turn...

So for everyone out there that feels the librarians can not cast at the end of turn... Whats the point of the formation then? when would it ever be played?

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40K Rules Questions / Re: Librarius Conclave
« on: May 02, 2016, 07:58:55 PM »
I suppose i will finally throw my thoughts in here... I don't want to really get involved...   

When i first read the rules i took it as the other librarians can not cast until everyone else has finished. I also believe that the rule in the formation give these other librarians permission to cast during the end phase. Otherwise it would say something along the lines of Nominate a single librarian to manifest spells, no other librarian can cast spells this phase. It does not say that they can't cast spell's, it just says they need to wait for the end phase.

I stated it like that once to my group of players here and they all agreed. Nowhere does it say the other librarians can not cast spells.... It says they can't cast until the end phase....So during the end phase, they cast spells....

Another quick question: If i have 3 librarians all taking the same primary, can my nominated librarian try and cast the Dark Angel Primary spell more then once? We also play that the nominated librarian can only try to cast a single spell once, as per the BRB, was not sure how this actually plays out...  This is another reason why the other librarians can try to cast after everyone else, to get the duplicate spells off...  just figured i would ask with everyone so active here.

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That is a sad end to the life of the Terminators.. I think they looked fairly good, i was interested in seeing one finished.

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Discussion: Orks / Re: Building Orks, Would these units work?
« on: April 12, 2016, 12:18:39 AM »
I wanted to throw my opinion in the mix, hopefully it helps.

With the wartrack Vs Deffkopta ... The wartracks are awesome because they are cheap. I agree completely that my opponent has left them alone because they seem to worthless to actually shoot at. I only really take them to fill in the point holes after my army has been filled.  The Deffkopta are nice, but i agree that they die to fast. That said I normally take a squad of 3 and keep them in reserve.

I do not like the DeffDreads or the KillaKans. They move to slow, do not deal enough damage, and die fairly easy. I started my orc army with these units and quickly changed.

I really enjoy the bikes. They are not as good as previous editions, but can still hold their own on the field. My preferred method is to take a squad or two and try to deliver fast moving powerKlaws into my opponents ranks... The bikes and DeffKopta work well together. You can create several fast moving, and dangerous units to hopefully gut an opponents army fairly quickly.

Boys are my favorite Ork based army to play. For the most part i agree with Shark here.. Boyz before Toyz. . . That said, i always take the commandos, led by Snitrot. While mobs of boyz (30) running across the field is amazing, you need something to distract. I like to take the commandoes over the Storm boyz for one main reason. The storm boyz help to engage the front line, but only 1 turn before the main orc hard starts to arrive. It is fairly hard to lead frog across the enemy field to the soft back, the unit is to big, and the enemy does not allow it. The commandoes on the other hand start from the enemy deployment field, and can engage what ever long range fire power they have back there. I feel that they normally buy me enough time to justify their point cost.

I wanted to put a separate spot here, this is important... Grotz are the best unit you can field. Obviously you can not take an army filled with just gretchen.. On the other hand you never want any there unit sitting on an objective. I normally try to take 4-6 small squads of Grotz just to run around and cluster the opponent by holding objectives. Works amazingly well with the boyz, the mech, and the bikes.

Best of luck with your ork army.

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Discussion: Conversions / Creating Plague Marines
« on: April 08, 2016, 05:31:25 AM »
So i have been working on creating new units so that I can start a Chaos army. This is the first unit that i have made for the army. Here are a few pictures showing the progress. The "legs" are made from hot glue. I have been working with using that to build mass and shape. Anyways let me know what you think.

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Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 1250 point Battle Company?
« on: April 07, 2016, 02:08:17 AM »
I run my assault squads with a basic drop of 5, and a Deathward launcher on top of the drop pod. Dropping 2 of these units up close to the enemy and they can do a fair amount of damage. If done correctly it will deny movement to a large part of the enemy front lines. (as their turn 1 they can't move with 2 pods and men standing just in front of them) Or they 

I like the idea of running a squad of bikes instead of the assault squad. I play DA, and this is something my codex won't allow me. The best thing i get from bike squads is the use of grave guns. They have relentless , so they can move 12 and fire full salvo. Use them to run between the drop pods (hopefully having blocked LOS from some of the drop pods along the way) and hunt down the enemy elite units.

I would highly suggest taking a dreadnought or possibly two, with the multi-melta, as your anti armor option. For a simple 200 points they will do great things in a smaller game like this.  Drop the Dreadnoughts first turn and start to hit the enemy armor. You might be able to shoot if off the board with the 2 melta, if not turn 2 charge will finish off just about anything. 

using the bikes, along side the dreadnought will take up almost all your points. You will need to add some sniper as a cheap Aux unit. This would allow you to put a drop pod and a basic squad on each objective. It is not easy to take out the drop pod and the squad of marines together quickly. Hopefully the bikes/dread have reduced the enemy fire power, and you can sit on the objectives racking up points... 

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Discussion: Dark Angels / Re: demi company
« on: January 16, 2016, 02:42:34 AM »
Well sharkoutofwater, i would like to hear your thoughts on that... What chapter would you recommend for the battle demi company? I think that the DA grim resolve (full BS when firing overwatch) is much better then some other chapters when your fighting up close.  There are a few other chapters that give a nice bonus, but nothing overly strong. So please give me some examples.  (i only really see the imperial fists as a even trade off)

I just love the face that i can drop down with 9 bolt guns and a flamer... Flame them back then use 18 rapid fire shots. That is enough to kill most of a squad if done correctly. Then is your matched against something that is mainly melee... They really can't stand and shoot against the marines, so they charge. Up to another 18 shots and a wall of death. I love the face that it makes my marines immune to all but the greatest of melee threats... Then again who wants to charge a devastator squad when they have 4 grav-cannons to shoot at full BS? that can drop a monstrous creature before it gets a chance to hammer of wrath.. .. 

Anyways, this is besides the point. OP wanted to know about the battle company, not the best chapter. I still say its the best way to run marines. Better then the bikes, terminators or tank spam. It gives you models on the board and that makes it more forgiving then the other options. Plus when you have lots of marines you get more of a chance to see some heroic stands made by the squads.

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Discussion: Dark Angels / Re: demi company
« on: January 16, 2016, 12:12:41 AM »
Honestly i like my "green wing" the most out of all three. Once you are able to get free drop pods and transports it just falls into place.  I love the face that i can alpha strike on to key targets first turn. This allows for several things to almost happen every game.

1) you get to steal every and any open objective. What i like to do is put the drop pod on an objective, and run the troops about 6" away and into cover. This means the drop pod will be getting my points, and my marines and stay down and shoot. If my opponent takes the time to shoot down my pods then my marines will be able to deal even greater damage.  Once a pod drops i can always shift the marine squad back onto the objective.

2) first blood. With dropping in half of your army turn 1 you can choose and eliminate almost any squad on the board. Once your opponent gets used to this they will need to run squads in larger groups, thus reducing his mobility. Also my main opponents now deploy in a kind of turtle shell around the units that are hiding from my flame throwers. This just allowed me more room for board control, and more time siting on objectives.

3) Free transports!!! In a list of 1500 points, you are able to take several hundred points on free tanks. The draw back, don't play a kill point game... They do hurt a wee bit... but when you play with objectives it gives so much free points and hull points it is fairly hard to counter.


The draw back... We as dark angels do not have great anti air options.

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