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A scrumgrod and I have a 1000 point game planed for Sunday. (My first game of 8th edition.)
It's meant to be a learning game and with luck two games of more with some luck.
 
1,000 points Patrol detachment 3 command points (3 base for battle forged.)
999 points
 
HQ
S.A.G. Mek
Big Mek with K.F.F.
 
Troop
Grot Mob 10 models
Boys Mob 30 Models 3 Bigshootas 1 Big Choppa
 
Elite
WAAAGH Banner Nob
Burna Boys Mob 10 models
 
Transport
War Trukk
 
Fast attack
Storm Boys Mob 20 models  1 Power Klaw
 
Heavy Support
Big Gunz 3 Kannons
 
I've made a 500 point list to add to the 1,000 points above. This changes the Patrol to a Battalion
500 points 
Battalion 6 command points
 
HQ
Zagstruk
 
Elites
Nobs Mob 5 models 5 Big choppas
Kommando Mob 5 Models 2 Burnas
 
Troop
Grot Mob 15 models
Battle Wagon 1 model Deff Rolla 2 Big Shootas
 
1,500 points
Some changes in mind. Drop SAG Mek for Weirdboy. Drop 3 Burna boys. Drop 1 Bigchoppa Nob from the Nobs mob.
Dropp the two big Shootas from the Battle Wagon. This nets enough points for two solo Deff Koptas with Kustum Mega Blasters and Bombs.
This also unlocks the outrider detachment. New command point total 7.
Moving up to 2000 points
10 stormboys, these are added to the 20 already listed.
6 Tankbustas
6 tank bustas
1 War Trukk
1 Blitza Bomba.
(This may unlock a 3rd detachment. Vanguard Detachment.) 8 command points (498 points)
 
Lastly I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to add more Nobs by dropping their Big Choppas. that would add 2 more nobs.  (4 points unspent.)
6 unspent points. could be fed back into the Blitza Bomba to trade it for a fully kitted dakka Jet.
I've already changed this list too much.

MY friend mentioned having made several lists already. So I decided to step it up.
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The point of this one is so that you can replace the Storm Bolter with a Shield and still get the Cyclone.  You can't trade the Storm Bolter for a Shield and trade that same Storm Bolter for a Cyclone and Storm Bolter or other heavy weapon.  You've already gotten rid of it.  You won't ever have the extra Storm Bolter in this case because you are taking a Cyclone outside of the 'replace' list.

The Long Fang blah blah can never take a Storm Shield.  It's not in his lists of things to take.  He can take one item from the melee weapons list to replace the sword and a Combi or Heavy weapon.  From a gameplay perspective, this makes sense.  The unit is meant to be shooty and with wound allocation at your choice, the player would tank so many high AP value wounds onto a friggin 3++ model, protecting the whole squad.  I'm sure this was intentional.
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Discussion: Dark Angels / Re: Deathwing and Cyclone Missile Launcher
« Last post by SharkoutofWata on June 23, 2017, 12:00:09 PM »
As silly as it is, RAW allows you to do practically whatever you want.  It says you may TAKE a Plasma Cannon or Heavy Weapon, not replace anything for these options.  Look at the vanilla Terminator squad and there they use 'replace'.  So you can have a model with a TH/SS/Cyclone/Storm Bolter or 2x Storm Bolters, Cyclone and Chainfist.  I wouldn't model anything with these weapon options though, cause that's gotta change on codex release.  But, as written, that's how it is right now.
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Discussion: Space Wolves / Wolf Guard Terminators and Cyclone Missile Launcher
« Last post by ANevskyUSA on June 23, 2017, 10:15:48 AM »
Back in 7th edition (i.e. less than a week ago), one could tack a Cyclone Missile Launcher onto 1 in 5 Wolf Guard Terminators (that did not already include another heavy weapon).  This means that unlike codex or Blood Angel terminators, a WG terminator could have a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield (or some other combination of weapons) and a CML. 

Can this occur still in 8th edition?  The wording looks similar.  In 7th edition, the unit entry indicated that the storm bolter was "replaced" by a Heavy Flamer or Assault Cannon, but pointedly did not indicate that the CML replaced anything.  It is similar in Index Imperium 1 because the unit entry indicates that a model may "replace" the storm bolter with a weapon from the terminator heavy weapons list or just "take" a cyclone missile launcher (even though the CML+Storm Bolter) is listed in the terminator heavy weapons list.  I assume then that the point cost is identical to the wargear listing and the model is paying a 2 point tax for the non-existent storm bolter (assuming a TH/SS load-out)?

However, the WG pack leader in terminator armour for the Long Fangs only ("only!") has the ability to "replace" his storm bolter for a heavy weapon from the terminator heavy weapons list, which includes the CML+storm bolter.  I take it that this means that for the Long Fang WG Terminator pack leader, the model can only have the CML + Storm Bolter + some melee weapon combo, and not a TH/SS or Wolf Claws + CML?

Thoughts?
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Discussion: Dark Angels / Deathwing and Cyclone Missile Launcher
« Last post by ANevskyUSA on June 23, 2017, 10:02:43 AM »
In 7th ed, there was a FAQ indicating that one could arm a Deathwing terminator with TH/SS (or a pair of Lightning Claws) and a Cyclone Missile Launcher.  The reason was that the model first replaced all weapons with the TH/SS or 2LC, then added the CML afterwards because the TH/SS and Lightning Claw bullet point was above the CML one.  The wording in and bullet point order in the 8th ed Index: Imperium 1 is the same as in the 7th ed Dark Angels codex.  However, int 7th ed codex wargear list for the Cyclone Missile Launcher lists just the CML with a footnote that reads "does not replace model's storm bolter" (or something like that) whereas the wargear list in Index Imperium 1 lists a "Cyclone Missile Launcher and Storm Bolter" with no footnote. 

My question is this: Can a Deathwing terminator take a TH/SS and a Cyclone Missile Launcher?  Is the only combination possible a Storm Bolter, Cyclone Missile Launcher and Power/Chain Fist?  Or is it something weird like a single Lightning Claw + Storm Bolter + CML (because the storm bolter that comes with the CML will replace one of the lightning claws or just the thunder hammer or just the storm shield)?
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40K Rules Questions / Re: 8th ed questions
« Last post by Eryx_UK on June 23, 2017, 09:44:18 AM »
Thank you very much.
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Alright I'm starting to get games in, the biggest change is that dunecrawlers are now absolutely essential. Neutron lasers are really one of the only viable anti-tank options if your running skitarii. The arc rifles can help you finish off a wounded vehicle but are otherwise just a shadow of their former selves. However, I would take as many of them as you can if you have the extra points as they will give you a little extra firepower against infantry. The heavy battle servitors are still worth taking but I'm really not sold on the breachers for the points cost. Grav Cannons are still the way to go.
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Thoughts on 8th Edition Aeldari/Ynnari
« Last post by Chmmr_X on June 23, 2017, 02:10:12 AM »
Fire Prism
1 word. DISMAL

I had high hopes for the prism but it has disappointed me horribly. The Heavy 1D6, 1D3 and 1  hurt the prism very badly since its shots are too variable, and you still need to roll to hit on top of that. The -1 to hit on the move hurt it even more. It looked good on paper but once tried, it performed badly consistently. I'd suggest to skip it entirely.

Night Spinner
The Night Spinner is another one of those hidden gems that performed better than expected. 2D6 shots at S7 AP Rend-lite and D2, it is actually quite deadly and you dont even need line of sight to shoot your weapon with an impressive range of 48" and at 155 pts. Don't underestimate this baby!

Note: If you are shooting at vehicles that are covered by ruins (at least 50%) from the night spinner, it still gets cover bonus of +1. However, Infantry only get this benefit if they are INSIDE cover. So if they are standing under a building is fully or partially covered by a building, they get no bonus whatsoever but the vehicle next to it gets cover. Weird? Yes it is...

Dark Reapers
They are awesome. Their 2 firing modes make them quite versatile. Heavy 2 S5 AP-2 D2 or Heavy 1 S8 AP-2 D3 is really damaging, especially when the entire unit shoots. They are very accurate too, needing a 3+ to hit at all times despite any modifiers except for overwatch. If everyone else have to hit at 5+, Dark Reapers still hit at 3+. AWESOME!

Having said that, they are fairly expensive. I played them in squads of 5. Furthermore, everyone knows how crazy deadly the Reapers are. Therefore, everybody and their grandmother are going to target their heavy weapons at the Dark Reapers and most likely kill them. Make no mistake, Dark Reapers are FRAGILE.

I'm gonna try running them in Wave Serpents to at least protect them from the Alpha strike so that they can take some time to neutralise or minimize the damage that will come their way later. Or i might even bring them forward along with my other elements to provide close fire support, although I think that this might be suicidal. Worth a try!!

Crimson Hunters
I was at first conned by their 2+ to hit stat only to remember that when they move (which they must), their weapon gets a -1 modifier. Their 2 bright lances and pulse gives you some much needed and realiable anti tank weaponry or hard to dislodge space marines that must be cleared from a ruin. Their reroll to wound against units that can FLY Is a nice icing on the cake. What makes this unit great is that it can get into position because of its speed. The Vector dancer like rules allows you to stay on the board and not be blocked. Like the Windriders, you can even position them to snipe enemy characters. Have a ball doing it!

Hemlock
These guys have improved a lot! Their weapons are heavy D3 auto hit weapons now but rolling 2 1s so far is NOT FUN. I've had the Hemlocks in almost all of my games so far and it's performed quite ok. Even after heavy damage, they still perform fairly well because of the auto-hit nature of its weapons. It's a psychic unit too! I would think Embolden/horrify would be the best combo for it but so far I've not been able to fully utilise this since I've been fighting a lot of vehicles, on top of the fact that whatever I shoot at most of the time dies completely to get its soulburst bonus.

The verdict on the Hemlock is still a head scratcher but I still have hope for its performance.

Wraith Knight
I've only used him once and it performed mediocre, but it's not a fair assessment of it because it was heavily damaged by 1st turn charge of Genestealers thanks to Swarmlord, and it was only my 2nd game. The 2 heavy wraithcanons are very deadly now against other high wound targets since you get 4 shots out of them now.

Other thoughts
Generally, I've found that the point increases for Eldar hurts Eldar quite a lot. I'm rather bitter by the fact that Eldar is being encouraged to sit still and shoot at full efficiency when in the past they are able to move and shoot everything fairly comfortably, which is really against the Eldar way of war. They had always been supposed to be very mobile shooting on the move. Was rather pissed off when a bunch of Imperial players suggested that you are "supposed" to sit still and shoot as it makes more sense to do so to be accurate. Such mon-keigh talk that know nothing about Eldar way of war!

I've found Psychic powers rather hard to rely upon now also because of the 50% failure rate. Chaos and other factions can cast some good powers at lower psychic costs. So much for Eldar being masters of psykers...

Finally, foot Eldar is just very very VERY hard to play. THey die in droves, which is so not the Eldar way of war. Some suggested using Eldar Guardians as meatshields... but such notions are so against Eldar way of fight. At the meantime, I find that a mechanized force for Eldar is the way to go for a competitive list with a fair balance between anti-horde and anti-mech weaponry.

That's it folks. My assessment thus far. Will have more games with different units to see how it works. Post your comments below on your thoughts and your own experiences!

Cheers
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Discussion: Eldar / Thoughts on 8th Edition Aeldari/Ynnari
« Last post by Chmmr_X on June 23, 2017, 01:43:43 AM »
Hey everyone

After having some games with the new Aeldari codex, below are my thoughts on the units based on my games with them thus far. This is by no means comprehensive... just based on what I've used so far

Farseer
This has become my go-to must-have HQ unit. I've always given him Guide and Doom primarily because I find those powers to be the most important to support the rest of the armies and to take on those high wound units where you really need to kill fast (eg. Imperial Knight). I personally find Fortune to be badly nerfed as it now essentially give a 5+ FNP to all wounds, which is rather unreliable IMO. The runes have been a really great back-up to make sure my spells are cast. Having a 50% failure (spells being 7 to cast) is quite damaging so far, with only the CP and runes ensuring that the powers are cast. However, I am a bit disapppointed that they cannot get Ynnari powers in any way. The only way to get them is through Yvraine... sigh...

Eldrad
Fairly cheap for what he can do although a bit pricey if you compare him to a generic Farseer. He essentially has all the Eldar Runes of Fate powers and Smite with some better offensive bonus along with better casting possibilities as you cast more powers successfully. The staff gives you some variety in your CC prowess but you don't really want to put him in the front line assault. A good addition to an army if you have the points to spare. Otherwise, sticking to a generic Farseer is good enough.

Illic
I have come to love this HQ unit which I never cared about in the past. His ability to wound anything except a vehicle on a 2+ along with a -3 rend makes him really deadly, coupled with his D3 damage. Any character that has no LOS equivalent units near him will definitely have cause to worry. The mortal wounds on a 6 is icing on the cake. On top of this, he only cost 88 pts. But if you take him, it's best to take Rangers along as well to ensure that the character you want dead is actually killed.

Warlock
A cheap HQ unit to fill up the detachment HQs where needed. Depending on what you bring along, the psychic powers I've found most useful for him so far are Conceal and Enhance. Admittedly, I find Enhance more viable at the moment mainly because I always put him very close to my Banshees. Banshees hitting on 2+ is really deadly and nothing to laugh at. Conceal is a nice power to have to keep your army still alive. A must have for a foot army.

Yvraine
As far as I'm concerned, there's only 1 reason to take her: Ynnari powers. The Ynnari powers are really really good no doubt. Only problem, they are fairly expensive to cast but thankfully, she has the Gyrinx that adds 1 to the power casted so you can cast Gaze of Ynead at 7 instead of the super high 8. I have so far ran her with Gaze of Ynead and Word of the Phoenix. The Word of the Phoenix is really awesome, immediately giving a unit in range soulburst. This will help your deepstriking units get in range for a wholesome charge (eg/ Striking Scorpions) or allows your hard hitting unit to kill/severely damage key enemy units before the shooting phase. If you are lucky, you can even set off a chain reaction of soul bursts.

Gaze of Ynead didn't perform too well for me thus far because of its high casting power need but the potential is there. You can actually target characters and deal potentially 6 mortal wounds if in range. You can then finish off using the snipers. Otherwise, I've not used her in close combat yet as I've been keeping her behind enemy lines to avoid being a target. At 132 pts, she's at least far more usable now compared to how she was in FOBT.

Guardian Defenders
Your go-to troop choice. Cheap at 8 points to hold back lines and any infantry that comes too close. Otherwise, I so far find them not very useful other than a troop choice filler. Their offensive power is fairly limited and anything that points their guns at them will kill them. The heavy weapons being -1 on the move hurt them fairly, makign shuriken canons the most viable if you want to be mobile. If they are going to sit back at base, camping on objectives and providing fire support, the heavy weapons can be viable.

Dire Avengers
Way too expensive. They are quite resilient with the Shimmershield equipped in a big squad but a squad like that can easily reach 200+ points. With that kind of points, you can field 2 10 man guardian squads with weapons. The added range on their guns are a good bonus. I'm going to try running them in 5 man squads supporting the other aspects in transports to see how they fare. Otherwise at the moment, I don't find them all that good.

Rangers
These guys have become quite the gem to me. The character killers, a S4 AP0 weapon seem lackluster, until you add in the possibility of mortal wounds on a 6, which can be a major big deal. Remember, characters are generally force multipliers now. When you take them out, the enemy army becomes significantly weaker due to loss of synergy. They are fairly resilient too being -1 to hit and +2 armour for being in cover. 20 pts for a model makes them fairly expensive but quite worth it if they managed to do what they are supposed to do. As a result, they have become quite the target.

Windriders
Ever since they have been moved to fast attack, scatter lasers being -1 to hit and their point being almost doubled for naked bikes, I actually gave this a miss. However, I tried them recently and found them to be really good in a different way. I ran them with Shuriken Canons instead of Scatter laser for more reliable shots and possible rends in squads of 3. They have performed quite well, especially as character snipers. How did I do so? By using their speed, I put them in a position where the character is the nearest enemy. Once that is achieved, I pour all my shots onto the character to kill it. The windriders are really superb at doing this, which was quite the hidden gem I've found.

D-Scythe Wraith Guards
These guys are surprisingly more resilient now with their 3 wounds, despite the T5 nerf. It takes a fair bit before their power is decreased. As for their gun, i was first not too impressed by the 1 damage dealt by the D-Scythe. I was hoping for Damage 2 but I realised even with 1 damage, it can be fairly damaging. I've ran them in squads of 6 (to fit an entire wave serpent) and even with rolling a 2, that's 12 auto hit shots at Strength 10 with almost no saves. That's A LOT of damage. Killed a Dark Angel Captain with a single salvo despite the 3++ invul save. When you pair this with soulburst, things get ugly really REALLY fast. These guys can become your airplane killers quite well. Even vehicles with high wounds will get at least badly maimed by a salvo from these guys, if not destroyed, unless of course you rolled a 1.

Howling Banshees
These girls have improved really significantly now that you can assault out of vehicles. As usual, Doom support is almost mandatory. Being able to always hits first is very crucial and dangerous. Becareful though, they are very fragile but they hit really hard. The -1 to hit if the Exarch is alive is really good to keep you alive in close combat. So far I've been equipping my Exarch with Executioner despite the -1 to hit (making it a 4+ to hit) for that extra punch. This is where the Enhance power from the Warlock becomes very important. The +3 to advance and charge is really good for the banshees of course.

Wave Serpents
Wave Serpents are back and with a vengeance. No doubt that they are still heck of a lot more expensive compared to Space Marine Rhinos and Razorbacks, they had been the only things that are keeping my infantry alive and they are quite resilient. The Serpent Shield's -1 to damage actually really keeps the serpent alive for fairly long, long enough for you to deliver your packages. I've so far kept them cheap by just equipping them with twin Shuriken Canons, of which the firepower can be quite devastating as it is. For some extra points, I give a Wave Serpent Twin Brightlances for the extra anti-tank punch. If I do so, I normally give them crystal targetting matrix to ensure that they shoot at full BS instead of -1.

To be continued...
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40K Rules Questions / Re: 8th ed questions
« Last post by SharkoutofWata on June 22, 2017, 05:35:56 PM »
1) No restriction means no restriction.  Feels wrong to be able to, but I'm also not seeing any reason why you shouldn't be able to.  Looks like powers are okay to use at any time other than when in transports.

2) You can definitely charge units you can't see.  The Day 1 FAQ, Developer's Commentary or whatever they're calling it, specifically says that the intention is that you can.  Just keep in mind that only Infantry can pass through ruins walls and every other unit type has to go around them.
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