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Discussion: Chaos Space Marines / 8th Edition Chaos Vindicator
« Last post by Fritz40K on August 07, 2017, 09:23:08 AM »
Ok, admittedly its taken me a few to get used to vehicles having "wounds" now vs. armor values, and not having to worry or deal with facings anymore makes them more dynamic from when and where they can shoot.

But I'm good on that now...

I've noticed that as usual GW has bumped up the rules on certain units to make them auto-includes, as they do in any new edition to the game.

Then we have the models where the stats were tweaked to bring them more inline with the fluff- like terminators. How this holds over time, we will just have to see.

Finally, models, that have NEW rules due to the old rules being dropped- like the vindicator.

No more AV.

No more templates on a vehicle that was known for singing that single pie plate around.

In my 'zerker list (HAIL KHORNE!) I always played a vindicator. It was the first wave going in with my juggy lord, terminators, and land raider to punch a hole in my opponent and keep them busy while the waves of 'zerkers put them to the bolt pistol and chain axe.

With the vindi, sometime it worked, other times it didn't.

It wasn't so much getting immobilized out of range, or blown up in one shot- although both sucked. But rather how guys spread their dudes out, when combined with the scatter meant I wasn't hitting much.

NOW, even with the random boom boom profile of the gun, I'm getting more hits, its devastating against T5 or less, and is putting the hurt on vehicles or multi wound MCs.

AND I'm at less risk of getting blown up in a single shot.

The rules translation to 8th really helped the vindicator, ironically by becoming MORE random it became LESS random.   

Thoughts?
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I'd also poke around YouTube for any vids that have freehand stuff- easy to apply to banners and spaces with small details.

Emperor protects!
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Glad to here you're getting the hobby juices flowing again Kody! You might want to check out the Warhammer TV page on youtube if you have not already :

https://www.youtube.com/user/GamesWorkshopWNT

I have not yet seen a tutorial for banners in particular, but Duncan provides some simple, analytic advice on painting as a whole, so maybe these videos might be a good resource for you.

Cheers, Sindri
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Discussion: Battle Reports / Re: 2000 point tournament report
« Last post by sindri_tepek on August 06, 2017, 08:18:40 AM »
Congratulations on the strong showing Cel !
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Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 2000 Astra Militarum tourney list w/report
« Last post by Celerior on August 06, 2017, 06:07:08 AM »
A battle report for this army is now available here:

http://thewarmaster.com/index.php?topic=8001.0
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Discussion: Battle Reports / 2000 point tournament report
« Last post by Celerior on August 06, 2017, 05:58:11 AM »
I brought the list I posted here to a local NOVA tournament.
http://thewarmaster.com/index.php?topic=7984.0

Round 1
I faced a chaos list with 34 brimstone horrors, a bunch of flying demon princes including a couple named ones, Magnus the Red, and two chaos knights.
Mission: Primary objective: objectives. Secondary objective: pick from a list. Tertiary objectives: kill something every turn, turns 2-5.
Objectives: I picked linebreaker, marked a unit of brimstones for death, and picked one which basically meant that I had to kill all the brimstones. This was a big error. I was going to deploy my scions against the knights, right? And my opponent was going to be rushing my army with them, right? Why not target them?
Deployment: I made the error of being spooked, and getting distracted by terrain, and got thrown off my game. I deployed in a corner where there was cool terrain instead of in the middle. This cost me in the end, as I couldn't reach all the objectives.

Turn 1, he advanced, took out the mortars, took out my 10 scouts, and did some damage to the basilisk. My astropaths denied a smite or two and Magnus' warp time power. They would continue to deny many powers.
My turn 1, my scions took out one knight and damaged the other. I killed one brimstone squad, but not the targeted one, which was hiding in a building, and short enough to be out of sight to most of my shooting.

Turn 2, he killed a lot of scions, but not all of them.
My turn 2, I killed the other knight and did a lot of damage to Magnus.

His turn 3, He killed almost all the scions and flew Magnus away from a lot of the firepower. At this point we were running out of time and realized we were only going to get 4 turns, because the organizers only gave us 2 hours of play per round!
My turn 3, I double-timed the conscripts and got them near many of the objectives.

His turn 4, one unit of brimstones reached a distant objective, another hid in a building in a corner, and his demon princes sat on two others. Magnus was going to be irrelevant to the scoring, so he basically just sat around and used smiting powers to kill about 20 conscripts. He would have had to kill about 20 more to make a difference.
My turn 4, my backline held 2 objectives, and my conscripts reached two more. Because I had deployed in a corner instead of the middle, I didn't manage to reach the other two, and I only managed to kill about half of the brimstones on the distant objective, and two brimstones survived my desperate assaults while hiding in the building.

Scoring: I beat him on primary objectives by 4 points, but he achieved all his secondaries and I achieved just 1, and I hadn't killed units on turns 3 and 4. He won, 13 to 11.

Lessons: Don't get spooked by a flying army and don't fall in love with awesome terrain features, because a 5+ to a 4+ isn't really valuable. Focus on secondary objectives first and pick things that you will be doing anyway, not things that seem easy. If you spend turns 1-2 focusing on secondary objectives and complete them, then once you've achieved them, focus on getting to objectives by the end of the game.


Round 2:
I faced a footslogging salamanders army with a lot of primaris marines. 10 hellblasters, 10 intercessors, 5 scouts, 5 tacticals, a predator, a razorback, a primaris rhino, a chapter master, 5 reivers, 5 vanguard vets with hammers. I seized the initiative, though really I shouldn't have bothered, but we both realized that this was going to be an unbalanced game.

Turn 1: My conscripts and scouts moved forward, half my scions dropped and killed half the hellblasters and the predator.
His turn 1, he killed most of the scions who had dropped, and used his reivers and vanguard vets to take out some of my scouting elements.

Turn 2: With all his deep strikers accounted for, I moved much of my army up farther, killed most of the reivers and all of the vanguard vets, and killing a couple of scouts. More scions dropped and killed all but one of the hellblasters. One reiver survived my assault which tied up him and a tactical squad.
His turn 2: He killed most of the scions that had dropped near the hellblasters with intercessors. His final Batman (reiver) survived the assault again.

Turn 3: I backed off the reiver and shot him to death, along with the scout squad, who didn't get 2+ saves in cover because of my astropaths. I tied up some big dreadnought and advanced my blob further towards his tactical squad.
His turn 3: He killed some conscripts.

We still had time, but rather than play out a fairly boring turn 4, we just assumed that his forces tucked in the corner could survive but that I would be able to take out a tactical squad and seize its' objective on that turn.

Scoring: This time I achieved all my secondaries (linebreaker, kill something on turn 1, and marked the reivers for death, since I figured they'd be coming near me...), got full points on the primary mission, and only failed to kill something on turns 5 or 6. He didn't achieve any secondary objectives and controlled just one primary objective marker. Final score: 18-4.

Lessons: If you're dealing with a firefight and actually want to win it, drop all your scions at once. Don't hold one in reserve here and one in reserve there. My conscripts can get to objectives. My backfield lascannons and plasma guns etc. can provide the extra last bit needed if it turns out I didn't put quite enough force into something.


Round 3
I faced a THUNDERHAWK GUNSHIP!!! In his backfield, he deployed a devastator (missile launchers) and hellblaster squad. A bunch of high firepower primaris units backed by a variety of characters sat in the thunderhawk's hold.
I deployed fearlessly in the middle of the table. For his objectives, he basically ended up trying to kill 60+ models, a conscript blob of 50, and my basilisk.

Turn 1: His thunderhawk flew to midfield. He shot at some targets he considered important: my heavy weapons and infantry squads. His devestators did a bit of damage to my big blob.
My turn 1: I dropped most of my scions to take out his hellblaster and devastator squads (one of my secondary targets, and another of my goals was linebreaker). I used overkill on both targets, fearing an auspex scan stratagem. My opponent didn't bother because with so much firepower available to me, "there's no point". I killed the support units, and shot the leftover plasma at the thunderhawk. My conscripts and other stripped another couple wounds off the thunderhawk.

Turn 2: His thunderhawk disgorged a ton of primaris marines. Between them and shooting from the thunderhawk, they killed most of his target, the 50-man blob. The thunderhawk also killed some more heavy weapons and almost killed his target the basilisk.
My turn 2: I fell back with what was left of my first 50-man blob. Using ignores cover from the astropaths and a few smites and some help from scions advancing backwards from where they had dropped (and then using orders to let them shoot anyway), I knocked out most of the folks he had dropped, leaving only a few characters. I kept them around in order to have something to kill for the tertiary objectives on the next two turns.

Turn 3: His thunderhawk wiped out the rest of his targeted conscript squad and the basilisk. His characters shot and assaulted, but did limited damage.
My turn 3: I killed all but one character, his captain (who I was saving for turn 4 for the tertiary objective). I did kill the character who was holding the relic. I managed to spread out my conscripts in a way that forced my opponent to drop the thunderhawk into hover mode on turn 4. My last plasma scion squad dropped and did a bit of damage to the thunderhawk. Astropaths came running out of their hiding in buildings and did a bit more. Conscripts did a bit more. One last infantry squad did a bit more, and brought the thunderhawk down one step on its damage table.

Turn 4: He disembarked his final hellblaster squad and moved them to one objective, grabbed the relic with his captain in the middle of the table, and moved the thunderhawk to be within 6" of another objective.
My turn 4: I killed the captain for control of the relic, double-timed some characters to the objective held by his hellblasters, moved some conscripts to outnumber his thunderhawk by the other objective, and kept some scions hunkered down in his backfield for the last objectives. I killed just enough hellblasters to control the last objective, and we called it with just a couple minutes to go.

Scoring: I controlled all the primary objectives, he controlled none. We had both achieved all our secondary objectives, and I had taken care to kill something every turn, except for turn 5-6, which we didn't get to. I won, 18-9.

Lessons: Marine HQ choices are a serious liability, just as I had suspected. They do little damage. Especially if you strip away the models they're supporting. Multiple astropaths allowing units to ignore cover against multiple targets and also smiting was awesome.

Other thoughts: The basilisk makes a great "distraction carnifex", sitting in cover and tanking quite a bit of firepower before going down. Vehicles DO have the survivability and damage output to be worth their points if you can prevent opponents from getting into assault or deep strike range. My opponents shot at it and targeted it even though usually there were better things for them to target.


Overall:
I came in 4th of 21 players, 2 points out of third place. Not getting to turn 5 hurt me, and if we'd had more than 2 hours per round I could have gotten there and scored another point in at least two games, probably all three.
But I should take ownership of my big mistakes in game 1, where I got thrown off my game by the number of flyers and sought to protect my big guns from assault by deploying in the corner. That was really stupid of me. I should have let him get at them, because my army isn't really built to win on damage output, but on conscripts reaching all of the objectives.
Also, my secondary objective picks were all wrong in game 1, picking models which my brain identified as bubble wrap, but which he could hide with little loss of operational efficiency. I learned my lesson by game 2, when I marked for death his most aggressive assault unit (reivers).
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Does anyone have a good resource or tutorial on how to paint banner cloth???  I love the new banner on the 8th Edition Tactical Squad.. but not sure how to paint cloth realistically...

Thanks..

Kody
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Wraith Army
« Last post by Odras on August 05, 2017, 06:24:59 AM »
The way you have it, it can't be a legal detachment.

You could go something along the lines of:

Vanguard Detachment:
Wraithseer - 200 With D-Cannon
5 Wraithguard D-Scythes + Serpent - 368
5 Wraithguard D-Scythes + Serpent - 368
5 Wraithblades Swords + Serpent - 318
Total: 1254

Supreme Command Detachment:
Eldrad
Warlock
Warlock
Total: 259

Superheavy Aux Detachment
1 Wraithknight - 502

That puts you at a total of 2015 points, you could tweak it slightly to bring it below 2015 points. Maybe take a regular farseer rather than Eldrad, or drop the wraithknight and take 2 hemlocks instead. General advice though for running a wraith army would be to start with the Vanguard detachment.
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General Discussion / Re: Morale tests - an opportunity to abuse?
« Last post by Mandalore The Litigator on August 05, 2017, 03:33:35 AM »
Sweet, thanks for the advice! I have been having a great time with the lychguard just shredding my opponent's front line, I think I need some destroyers as I struggle to deal with my friends storm wolf or storm fang gunship. More pew pews needed.

I suppose I should make maximum use of the flayed ones's ability to deep strike, and the deceiver's grand illusion to tackle 10 man marine squads and the like, but rely on firepower and my elite melee units to deal with msu and multi wound models.
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General Discussion / Re: Morale tests - an opportunity to abuse?
« Last post by SharkoutofWata on August 04, 2017, 11:49:10 PM »
Leadership is already something experienced players are taking into account while list building.  A ten man squad is vulnerable, but two five man, each with their own Sergeant or so on, has no vulnerabilities.  You kill five of ten, I have to roll a four or under to keep a good unit from losing a man, or, you've killed my squad already and you now have to start from square one with my whole new squad.  You can clearly see which one is going to take less loses.  The units that stay up there in body count are units that don't matter.  Death Company, Cultists, Guardians, use and abuse units that do their job and then die.  Or, they're units that can't be touched no matter if you have a -20 modifier.  My Tyranids or Huron Blackheart's aura ability or Poxwalkers or Conscripts with a Commissar.

Now that's not to say don't do it.  I wiped my opponent's Devestators squad off the table because of Morale once or twice, and it's a good friggin feeling.  Just don't count on that being your damage.  It's an awesome bonus and by all means include some units to take advantage, but make sure they have a way or an option to do things the old fashioned way when you invariably go up against the MSU armies or fancy tricks that some Factions have.
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