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91
So, the following list is, as far as I can tell, is complete cheese. I came up with it while doing some math-hammering. I would like to start a discussion on its merit and on how best to combat it with various armies. Maybe it isn't as cheesy as I think and I need to rethink my approach to the game.

Vanguard Detachment
HQ
- Captain
-- Jump 19 pts
-- Thunder Hammer 21pts
-- Combi-Plasma 15 pts
- Captain
-- Jump 19 pts
-- Thunder Hammer 21pts
-- Combi-Plasma 15 pts
ELITES
- Vanguard Veterans x10 160 pts
-- Jump 20 pts
-- Storm Shields x10 50 pts
-- Thunder Hammers 160 pts
-- Melta Bomb 5 pts
- Vanguard Veterans x10 160 pts
-- Jump 20 pts
-- Storm Shields x10 50 pts
-- Thunder Hammers 160 pts
-- Melta Bomb 5 pts
- Vanguard Veterans x10 160 pts
-- Jump 20 pts
-- Storm Shields x5 25pts
-- Plasma Pistols x15 105 pts
-- Melta Bomb 5 pts
- Vanguard Veterans x10 160 pts
-- Jump 20 pts
-- Storm Shields x5 25pts
-- Plasma Pistols x15 105 pts
-- Melta Bomb 5 pts
- Vanguard Veterans x10 160 pts
-- Jump 20 pts
-- Storm Shields x5 25pts
-- Plasma Pistols x15 105 pts
-- Melta Bomb 5 pts

Grand total of 1993 pts

The general strategy is to run the plas-pistols and captains along the ground, then drop 4 5-man thunder hammer squads at key locations. I know that one critical failure is the low CPs, only 4. I do think that is out-weighed by the overwhelming power this force can bring, as well as the speed at which it delivers. Another problem is its range, but I think that is countered by the invulnerable saves granted by storm shields. While I have the captains to rebuff overcharge deaths, with 15 plasma shots flying with each volley of each plasma squad, overcharge may not be necessary.
Fast, durable, and it hits like a truck. What am I missing, or am I down playing the faults that I already determined? Maybe it can be even more cheesy? Thank you in advance for your participation in this thought experiment.
92
Discussion: Eldar / Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Last post by Odras on November 17, 2017, 11:05:48 PM »
so let me get this right. Since you can only do (1) of the 4 strength from death powers. You are better taking a patrol detachment with Yvaine , cheap troop and wraithguard, run them up in a wave serpent. Hop out, and you get to shoot normally first once, kill a unit, use strength from death again, to shoot again. Then pretty much thats it a turn. As long as its a wrathguard type unit thats probably still ok, but you just cant do it army wide anymore.

am i correct?

Not quite, with the FAQ you are now limited to one of each soulburst action in your turn, therefore you can soulburst up to 5 times but you can only do each of the allowed actions once. So one soulburst and shoot, one soulburst and move, one soulburst and fight, one soulburst and psychic power, one soulburst and charge.

The out-of-phase actions mechanic was problematic in more than one way, you can expect any future iteration of SfD to NOT allow for acting in the opponent's turn--or maybe just once, for CPs, like an intercept Stratagem or something. This part of the nerf hurts, and it is a massive correction, but it's necessary.
Why do you think this correction was necessary? To me it was completely unnecessary, both on the internet and locally where I play I saw very little complaint about soulburst. Yea sure if you were able to set up a nice combo then it could destroy half of someones army, but there is so many of those combos in this game that this one doesn't feel any worse than.
93
Discussion: Eldar / Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Last post by Chmmr_X on November 17, 2017, 09:30:05 PM »
I personally feel that the nerf is akin to making Ork boys 15 pts each. It kills the flavour of the army completely to oblivion much like what the Index did to Craftworld Aeldari (on a side note, I still feel the -1 BS to move and shoot heavy weapons for our vehicles is nonsense. It kills the notion of them being a fast strike force killing on the move) but the Craftworlders are at least much more playable now due to Craftworld attributes, stratagems and point reductions.

But back to Ynnari: It bites big time. The army plays as a high risk high return kind of army since soul burst is only a 7" ability which only infantry and bikes get to utilise. Since the Aeldari are generally squishy, they die quickly and benefit from their deaths. They don't have numbers so they cannot keep dying, that's for sure. So for the army to only do one of each Soulburst ability once per turn, it causes the army to have a very high risk strategy with very low rewards, it's not worth it. You are almost effectively suiciding your unit for a one time use ability. Why suiciding? Well, you are basically within 7" of whatever you killed and the next turn, they'll die. And Eldar units are not cheap. The cheap ones don't have enough damage output. In the end, it's just an "OH! I got that ability." bonus rule than a "YEAAA!! I got that rule!"

At least battle focus, despite other races having better battle focus rules than Eldar, will be far more useful than this poor excuse of a faction rule.

So yea, that's my rant. In the end, I don't see myself using Ynnari any time soon.
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Last post by mcphro on November 17, 2017, 04:20:53 PM »
so let me get this right. Since you can only do (1) of the 4 strength from death powers. You are better taking a patrol detachment with Yvaine , cheap troop and wraithguard, run them up in a wave serpent. Hop out, and you get to shoot normally first once, kill a unit, use strength from death again, to shoot again. Then pretty much thats it a turn. As long as its a wrathguard type unit thats probably still ok, but you just cant do it army wide anymore.

am i correct?
95
Discussion: Eldar / Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Last post by DCannon4Life on November 17, 2017, 09:16:07 AM »
Ynnari, until (if/when) they get their own codex, will be relegated to filling a small detachment of an otherwise Craftworld army, pushed into the role that Harlequins used to occupy. As Ynnari could only continue to get more and more powerful as Dark Eldar, Eldar, and Harlequins get/got their codices, it makes sense to nerf it.

The out-of-phase actions mechanic was problematic in more than one way, you can expect any future iteration of SfD to NOT allow for acting in the opponent's turn--or maybe just once, for CPs, like an intercept Stratagem or something. This part of the nerf hurts, and it is a massive correction, but it's necessary.
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Community: Introductions Here! / Re: Hi
« Last post by Fritz40K on November 17, 2017, 09:15:30 AM »
Welcome to the forum and The Warmaster community.

Excellent to have another SW & BA player!
97
Discussion: Eldar / Re: NEW FAQ & YNNARI NERF
« Last post by Turnip Jedi on November 17, 2017, 05:06:01 AM »
That's a tad pants, so Ynnari are basically going to be a small detachment of Yvaine, WotP target unit (Reapers, Wraiths etc) and filler, hopefully we'll see some kind of bloodpoints/tally etc down the line
98
Discussion: Eldar / Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« Last post by Odras on November 17, 2017, 02:48:14 AM »
I think salty is an understatement at the moment. I have played exclusively Ynnari since they came out as they really closely represented my view of the Eldar(Aeldari) race as a whole and this nerf has in my opinion completely gutted them as a faction. However complaining on the internet isn't going to get me anywhere so I thought I would ask you guys your thoughts on the Ynnari after we rolled a 1 to save against the nerf bat.

Will you still use them?
If you are using them, how are you using them?
What are you changing from how you previously ran them?

My thoughts are that yes they can still be used, but more as an add-on to a craftworld army rather than as an army of their own. I am thinking at this point in time I will run the Yncarne + 10 wraithguard (D-scythes, single squad) + whatever else I need to make up my detachment. I think the key with Ynnari now will be running large squads to get the most out of limited soul bursts. The problem with running a large wraithguard squad with D-Sccythes is how to get them to the enemy. They can't take a serpent and they probably won't survive the walk across the board so that leaves webway strike. The only option I can see is dropping them in and attempting to cast quicken on them to get them in range, but relying on a WC7 power to go off for my 450 point unit to be able to do something isn't an idea I really relish.
99
Discussion: Eldar / Re: NEW FAQ & YNNARI NERF
« Last post by Chmmr_X on November 17, 2017, 01:54:03 AM »
While I haven't had a chance to test these changes, from a lot of experience playing Ynnari since they were released this change completely decimates their chances of playing as a competitive army. From what was said on the community site, it looks like the reason for this change was the Ynnari were too good compared to the other Eldar factions, however with what they have done there is still no choice, the decision is still as much of a no brainer as it was before the result is just different. Why take Ynnari now, and if you do why take any more than a single small detachment with only a couple of units?

My hope is that they have advanced knowledge of something in chapter approved / Ynnari codex that allows this change to make some more sense. The really annoying part is that we have to wait till that is released and worry that it might not even make it better.

IT'S IMPERIAL PROPAGANDA I TELL YOU!!! Then again, despite the massive nerf, they'll still cry Eldar cheese nonetheless!
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: NEW FAQ & YNNARI NERF
« Last post by Odras on November 17, 2017, 01:03:32 AM »
While I haven't had a chance to test these changes, from a lot of experience playing Ynnari since they were released this change completely decimates their chances of playing as a competitive army. From what was said on the community site, it looks like the reason for this change was the Ynnari were too good compared to the other Eldar factions, however with what they have done there is still no choice, the decision is still as much of a no brainer as it was before the result is just different. Why take Ynnari now, and if you do why take any more than a single small detachment with only a couple of units?

My hope is that they have advanced knowledge of something in chapter approved / Ynnari codex that allows this change to make some more sense. The really annoying part is that we have to wait till that is released and worry that it might not even make it better.
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