Author Topic: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...  (Read 20677 times)

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Offline Fritz40K

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Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« on: September 23, 2013, 06:27:40 AM »
I was checking the forum on my phone yesterday and saw a new post asking on how to make harlies work, couldn't respond then, but now the post seems to have perhaps been removed- perhaps by the original poster? If I find the post I'll merge the topic not wanting to hijack it...

So how to make harlequins work?

They are over priced, perhaps under powered, and in a game where assault has some major issues, so forget trying to make them work from that perspective. Focus on making them work from how they can buy you time on the table.

My harlie list at 2K has 30 clowns, three groups of rangers/pathfinders, and three wraithlords. The harlies will not last till then end of the game, they die by mid or late game every time....and that is OK, that is what they are there to do.

Think about how you can use VOT and psychic powers from a farseer to make them annoying as possible, and try to cause as much damage as you can before they die- use the clowns to keep your opponent busy which give your rangers time to get to objectives, or just stay alive to win.

When the clowns expire, then you thow in the wraithlords into the grinder to buy you time till the end of the game.

At the end of the game all you should have left is the rangers/pathfinders.

That is an executive overview so to speak, next post will be a few examples...

Offline ghostmask10

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 09:09:48 AM »
Very interesting, I always loved the concept of shadow seers, and the fact that they are so usefull makes me glad! ;D
Feel the rush of the wind against your skin and hear her keening cry in your ears. Listen to her call well, for are we not the Wild Riders, the children of the storm?

Offline Khe-Loc

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 09:12:57 AM »
Very interesting, I always loved the concept of shadow seers, and the fact that they are so usefull makes me glad! ;D

If only they had better Leadership... Same goes for Warlocks.

I hope that there is some sort of way to make the clowns work that is not only buying time.... ThatŽs just not right.

Forum get to work! We have to solve a problem here  8)

Offline Pdogg

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 09:17:21 AM »
I think it can be made to work just needs rethinking. What i feel would work well is having the 1-2 clowns act as more of a counter charge, this would require your enemy to want to come to you or draw him out of his deployment. Guided batteries of shadow weavers can flush enemies out of thier defense lines(only issue is it takes away a wraithlord spot.).

The wraithlords are more effective i think even though they lost the s10, they still id marines and got an extra attack. Now they get 2 weapons(not twin linked) and sword they can open the cans so the harlies can assult the innards.

Rangers basically just will need to go to ground if they get shot, in area terrain they get 2+ cover. Thier cheaper so this helps make up for the more expesive wraithlords. Thier damage output is minimal so going to ground is not a big loss.

I dont think you need to totally rework the list just change how its implimented. Fortune is not as needed as the new way VoT works its no longer about the rerollable 2+ iin cover and more about distance and running in last min to wipe the enemy. So without fortune you can focus on other powers, divination may have some nice powers to get like misfortune and 4++ inv.


Offline Khe-Loc

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 09:20:51 AM »
I think that mass Shadow Weavers would work better than Wraithlords. The firepower that they can put out is amazing and will force the opponent to close in. To complement the Wraithlord role we could take an Avatar, which would not only be able to support the Clowns countercharge, but also force the opponent even  further to close in, as shooting a fearless army off the board isnŽt the easiest thing to do.

HeŽll aslo be great with the Gun emplacement on the Aegis. An Aegis would probably work well as it protects your troops/Quinns from non template firepower.

Online DCannon4Life

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2013, 09:21:42 AM »
I would like to see if we can limit our initial discussion to making them work in 2000 point lists. I'm thinking that there is (almost) no way to make them work at 1500, but I would like to see them *work* at any level first and then see if they scale.
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Offline Khe-Loc

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2013, 09:23:02 AM »
I would like to see if we can limit our initial discussion to making them work in 2000 point lists. I'm thinking that there is (almost) no way to make them work at 1500, but I would like to see them *work* at any level first and then see if they scale.

Yup, 2000 seems like a good starting point.

First problem I see is the pricetag on Harlequins. 30 with all the upgrades/characters come in at 864 points. I think that that is too much...

What will we cut to make them cheaper however? Numbers? That would greatly reduce the points? Are Fusion Pistols needed for the counter assault role? Any of the Characters that you wouldnŽt take?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 09:30:52 AM by Khe-Loc »

Offline ghostmask10

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2013, 09:29:45 AM »
I feel like one thing the harlies lack is wave serpents! If only you had enough points to afford some dires or some guardians and then give the transport to the harlies! :-\
Feel the rush of the wind against your skin and hear her keening cry in your ears. Listen to her call well, for are we not the Wild Riders, the children of the storm?

Offline Khe-Loc

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2013, 09:34:22 AM »
I feel like one thing the harlies lack is wave serpents! If only you had enough points to afford some dires or some guardians and then give the transport to the harlies! :-\

YouŽd have to embark on t1 and then get across the table on t2. Get out on t3, which means youŽll get shot at at close range bypassing VOT and youŽll only be able to assault on t4 with weakened numbers...

I think the counter assault is a bit more viable here.

Offline ghostmask10

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2013, 09:38:11 AM »
Oops! I guess I'm just not experienced with ground troops! ;D
Feel the rush of the wind against your skin and hear her keening cry in your ears. Listen to her call well, for are we not the Wild Riders, the children of the storm?

Offline Khe-Loc

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2013, 09:40:33 AM »
Oops! I guess I'm just not experienced with ground troops! ;D

The lack of Jetbikes is indeed a problem.....

But letŽs keep this serious! Ways to make Clowns work! No joking arround  ;)

How can we make our opponent close in? How do we deal with Fliers? How do we leverage the Clowns?

Offline mcpolle

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2013, 10:43:58 AM »
Is it not an idea with threat saturation, by this I mean, they obviously want to shoot the Clowns, as they can be lethal in cc, so to get them there, there needs to be something else taking the heat from them.

What that should be, now that is a little more difficult, because our units with low AS, and low T, just are gonna get picked off, so something that will stick around, and something that has a decent AS,

But it seems that they are meant to be the distraction in the list, to get other things in.

Would love to see the army full of clowns might be a very pretty sight.

Polle

Offline Pdogg

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2013, 10:50:38 AM »
Distance is key with the clowns, I think shadow weavers are amazing here especially guided. If were 2000 Pts dual FOC would make it not a problem as you can still run all 3 wraithlords. The Vauls Wrath Batteries synergize with the wraithlords due to thier high toughness. The wraithlords would be best to have 2 BL's and a glaive and can be on anti tank duty at range, while the shadow weavers will be anti infantry duty. 2 units of 3 shadow weavers will leverage the farseers double guide/precience per turn. This gives the list more shooting causing the enemy to come to you to deal with the weavers/wraithlords.

The key to the list will be making sure the enemy has no "good" targets,

- Shoot the 60 pt rangers in cover... oh they got 2+ cover that didnt do anything :(
- Shoot the Harlies.... oh no i dont get to shoot at all :(
- Shoot the Support batteries/wraithlords.... my average guns bounced off :(

so if shooting is negated then what does your enemy need to do advance to assult, with 30 harlies and wraithlords with swords thats not going to work either.

I also reccomend warlocks with the shadow weavers just for conceal to make them 3+ cover as well just for extra lolz, thier cheap enough to to make the rest of the list still have plenty of breathing room. 125 is a steal for these units with warlock.

here is a mock up list
115-Farseer w/spirit stone of anath'lan (in case he gets fortune or a good 2 charge power he can still cast both guides)
150-Mantarch w/banshemask, bike, mantle of laughing god(BEST LIST FOR THIS :D), laser lance, fusion gun.

272- 7 reg clowns all with kisses
            -shadowseer w/kiss
            -death jester
            -Troop Master w/power weapon
272- 7 reg clowns all with kisses
            -shadowseer w/kiss
            -death jester
            -Troop Master w/power weapon
272- 7 reg clowns all with kisses
            -shadowseer w/kiss
            -death jester
            -Troop Master w/power weapon

60- 5 Rangers
60- 5 Rangers
60- 5 Rangers
60- 5 Rangers


90- 3 Shadow Weavers
90- 3 Shadow Weavers
165- Wraithlord w/2 Bright Lances and Ghostglaive
165- Wraithlord w/2 Bright Lances and Ghostglaive
165- Wraithlord w/2 Bright Lances and Ghostglaive

1996 Pts
I could not fit in the warlocks for the support weapons but it could be made to fit.
Hope this helps Fritz!!! :)


The weakness is the rangers vs ignore cover, if this happens you need to keep them in reserve and outflank if need be. You should be able to deal with the ignore cover threats using the autarch modifier to keep them off the board longer if need be.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:58:02 AM by Pdogg »

Offline Khe-Loc

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2013, 10:52:11 AM »
Is it not an idea with threat saturation, by this I mean, they obviously want to shoot the Clowns, as they can be lethal in cc, so to get them there, there needs to be something else taking the heat from them.

What that should be, now that is a little more difficult, because our units with low AS, and low T, just are gonna get picked off, so something that will stick around, and something that has a decent AS,

But it seems that they are meant to be the distraction in the list, to get other things in.

Would love to see the army full of clowns might be a very pretty sight.

Polle

It is an awesome sight. All the colors make it a very pretty army.

Once again IŽll say, that an Avatar would probably benefit the list, as heŽll soak up shots and also make the Harlies Fearless.

I think weŽll have to take what IŽd usually refer to a "annoying" firepower. Stuff that guys hate and want to kill, that way theyŽll forget about the Clowns allowing us to set up the charge.

Offline Pdogg

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Re: Makeing Space Clows (Harlequins) Work...
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2013, 10:59:52 AM »
Is it not an idea with threat saturation, by this I mean, they obviously want to shoot the Clowns, as they can be lethal in cc, so to get them there, there needs to be something else taking the heat from them.

What that should be, now that is a little more difficult, because our units with low AS, and low T, just are gonna get picked off, so something that will stick around, and something that has a decent AS,

But it seems that they are meant to be the distraction in the list, to get other things in.

Would love to see the army full of clowns might be a very pretty sight.

Polle

It is an awesome sight. All the colors make it a very pretty army.

Once again IŽll say, that an Avatar would probably benefit the list, as heŽll soak up shots and also make the Harlies Fearless.

I think weŽll have to take what IŽd usually refer to a "annoying" firepower. Stuff that guys hate and want to kill, that way theyŽll forget about the Clowns allowing us to set up the charge.

Im surprises the mantarch suggestion has not been posted by you yet khe :P