Poll

Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord: Who Would Win?

Kharn The Betrayer
16 (61.5%)
Swarmlord
10 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Voting closed: December 13, 2014, 09:53:09 AM

Author Topic: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord  (Read 3925 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Fritz40K

  • ADMIN
  • Primarch
  • *
  • Posts: 1341
    • View Profile
Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« on: December 03, 2014, 09:32:34 AM »
Finally ascending to the tallest bio-spire the Betrayer and what was left of his chosen honor guard entered the throne room of the great hive mind.

While the others, including many of his own warband where quick to flee from this world, Kharn had of course decided to stay, and now he would give the greatest tribute to Khorne…and himself…

Sensing both final victory and total defeat hanging in the balance the hive mind activated the creation pod of the norn-queen, as the Tyranid bio-pod deep inside her activated, evolved, and grew in moments would have taken days.

Bursting forth was the largest Tyrand beast yet that Kharn had seen and cut down with his obsidian chain axe Gorechild.

Rising to full height, the Tyrant known as Swarmlord readied its boneswords and hissed a challenge to the World Eater… 


Offline Lexicon

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 95
  • Pointy Eared and Proud
    • View Profile
    • Lexicon of Doubts
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 09:45:46 AM »
It was a tough choice, but I believe that Khorne's chosen champion would win the day over the Hive Mind.

Why?

Because Khorne abhor's psykers. As Khorne's champion, Kharn has been blessed by his patron to be immune to psychic powers, meaning that the Swarmlord loses a lot of its advantages it would otherwise have. In terms of sheer martial prowess, I imagine that Kharn would come out on top, therefore I believe that Kharn would win because that's what it would come down to with his immunity to psychic powers.

(EDIT: Sorry, Fritz! Got a bit excited and posted too soon! :D)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 09:54:04 AM by Lexicon »
Lexicon of Doubts - My personal blog about wargaming, fiction and other interests

Collector of all things Eldar (with some minor Imperial and Chaos interests)

Online Fritz40K

  • ADMIN
  • Primarch
  • *
  • Posts: 1341
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 09:51:31 AM »
So for the first official Warmaster 40K grudgematch we have two of my favorite 40K personalities facing off against each other in personal close combat- The Betrayer vs. The Swarmlord. So here is how I think the battle would go down…

Benefactors.

Before we can even look at the two warriors, we need to consider the powers behind them, and in many ways this matchup would be a chess match of sorts with both champions just being pawns in the game despite their martial ability.

Kharn is driven by the dark gods and his devotion or perhaps damnation to Khorne, while Swarmlord is controlled by the will of the Hive Mind. Both are beyond scope in power, and while one could argue that the Hive Mind is more powerful since it exists in the real universe over the warp, the chaos gods, and the scope of their influence are well godlike. Gods trump the forces of the universe anytime.

Equipment.

On the charge in Kharn would get a shot off with his plasma pistol, but the presence of the Hive Mind with an invulnerable save would ward against it- making sure the battle is settled in close combat. Just on equipment alone I feel like Swarmlord has an advantage- while Gorechild is a powerful chaos artifact, only Angron can truly wield it properly, against one bonesword perhaps Kharn’s fury could hold out, but against four?

Experience.

Kharn had thousands of years of experience as a space marine, and has participated in some of the largest battles in the known history of the galaxy- including the siege of Terra itself. While the Tyranid race, while older then Kharn, and perhaps even humanity, is relatively “new” to the galaxy, and the way humanity and xenos wage war- having spent the last hundred thousand years moving from one galaxy to ours though the slow void of deep space. Kharn has more experience in the here and now, then the Tyranids in terms of personal combat.

Outcome.

We’ll see how the poll plays out, but I voted for Kharn and would give him final victory of the Swarmlord- Kharn, much like Abbadon is marked for something greater in the galaxy, and while Khorne might not meddle in things as much as Tzeentch, I’m sure in the moment, when Kharn needed that final burst of fury to seize an opening his hatred would be focused by the lord of skulls.

Your vote?

Your thoughts?

Offline IDICBeer

  • Supporter
  • Supporter
  • Chapter Master
  • *
  • Posts: 691
  • The Wonders of Warhammer 40k
    • View Profile
    • IDICBeer 40k
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 10:44:54 AM »
I say Swarmy, Kharn is just a Marine!  =) lol

Offline InfectiousPanda

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 11:32:47 AM »
I say Kharn, because he is THE champion of Khorne; the ultimate badass. He is simply destined for much greater things than to perish by a mere tyranid creature, although powerful, still just a lowly alien creature with no name and no real sense of self, one among billions. Not saying the Swarmlord isnt powerful, it certainly is, but Kharn has destiny on his side, and a god, if he is going to die, it will surely be to a powerful hero of the Imperium, after having butchered a few thousand others of course. And there is his resistance to psychic powers to take into account.

Offline Sigmar

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 04:30:30 PM »
Fluff: Kharn. Althou swarmlord butchered marneus-i-f**k-your-avatar-calgar + honour guard. Why? Cos gw loves more kharn than swarmy... and...comon we wanna see him win after horus heresy stuff.

In-game: Swarmlord wins 9/10 times.

Offline Alacant

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 04:37:03 PM »
I do believe Khârn would be bested in this particular case; and here is why
-The swarmlord has the toughness, the size and the physical and metaphysical protection to endure several cuts from gorechild without flinching. Although usually the drawbacks of such a tough creature are a lack of agility and speed, it is stated in the fluff that the swarmlord lacks neither; being able to parry with his sabres at lightning speed and all that. Because of this Khârn, while Khârn will have a harder time to land a telling blow and properly wound the beast even ignoring all the Swarmlord's armor, the creature's ability to block strikes (With 4 arms!! Against 1). And it's size and mass means that even if it suffers a hit, there is no guarantee it will kill it.
-The swarmlord has the offensive resources: As mentioned above he has 4 arms wielding equally lethal weapons with a strength far superior to that of even an augmented superhuman, the size, sharpness, and special characteristics of the blades only further enhance their lethality. The swarmlord can attack from all directions using his blades, which makes in incredibly difficult to avoid an attack, and it can even attack with a pair while defending with another, or some similar "offense-defense" tactic. We have to consider that a single blow from the swords would be more than capable of tearing Khârn apart or severely maiming him if he gets caught (and with the insane melee skill of the SL, it's not that far-fetched to suppose he can land a blow). One could argue that Khârn's frenzy, bloodlust, and unholy might would allow him to ignore the pain and fight on, but losing an arm or being thorn in half would make this will to go on irrelevant, as his melee capabilities are horrendously diminished
The fact that the SL's weapons are so lethal if only a single one of them hits home (and let's not forget there's 4 of them) would require Khârn to be aware of the position of the blades at all times, and ready to avoid or counter all of them. This is somewhat contradictory with his usual fighting style, which is more akin to a butchering frenzy without much regard for defense. And I'm not sure if he would be able to adapt to this new fighting style. Although  it could be argued that he is just as capable of maintaining a cold head and a defensive stance if necessary; as he is depicted in the Heresy series as very calm and calculating even in the midst of battle. But I don't know how much of that cunning, tactical Khârn is left after 10000 years in the warp.
Even if Khârn is the single best human champion in the galaxy, he is constrained by the fact that this is no duel between equals, he is fighting a monstrous creature of equal cunning and skill, but much greater toughness and strength than him.
All in all, the need for Khârn to land several strikes to kill or maim the beast, while the SL only needs one or maybe two successful swings to severely limit Khârn's combat capability. As well as the fact that Khârn can only strike from one angle and one direction at a single point in time, while the SL has 4 attacking options at any given moment, give the Swarmlord an important edge in an even fight.
That is not to say Khârn would die; He would probably lose, but not finished. He has been retrieved from death several times by Khorne, and even if he was bested he could be retrieved by his warband or simply saved by Khorne's grace to join the Long War once more.
Sadly, any author would much rather kill the Swarmlord, as it would give COOLNESS FACTOR to Khârn, and it can simply be respawned by the hive mind and is thus expendable.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 04:39:46 PM by Alacant »
-"Cast down the idols! Destroy the temples! Slay the priests! Show these fools that they worship nothing more than a rotting corpse!"
-3k CSM, khorne themed

Offline Kezef

  • Chapter Master
  • *
  • Posts: 589
  • Angels have two wings for a reason
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 05:33:06 PM »
Kharn, well because compared to the Megarchnids tyranids are wuss's, and well kharn is from that era.

Offline Lord Mogerleigh

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 06:30:01 PM »
Kharn is my favorite character in the whole game... so I'd like him to win... but I'd really like to see someone roll the dice on this. :-)
"K" is for "Khârnage".

Offline Dirty Harry

  • Marshal of the Phoenician Crusade
  • Supporter
  • Regent Of Terra
  • *
  • Posts: 2033
  • I'lll abhor the $#!7 out of that witch!
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 08:36:23 PM »
I gotta give it up to the swarmlord. The hive mind creates the swarmlord only after its learned a lot about the prey it is currently waging war against. Every victory, as well as every defeat works to the hive mind advantage. Sure, Kharn has 10,000 years of combat experience. The only way to counter that is by genetically engineering an adversary that can counter the best assets available to the opposition. Its as if the swarm lord was birthed to fight kharn.
Don't try making a unit unkillable. its a waste of time and the dice gods laugh at you for wasting your time. Dedicate a unit to a job and make sure it does it til it's either dead or running.

Offline Angelic

  • Corsair of Yriel's Eldritch Raiders
  • Supporter
  • WARMASTER
  • *
  • Posts: 2215
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 09:10:14 PM »
I voted Kharn because of the Dark Gods being behind him but I really could not pick one way or the other. We'll see how the poll goes.. I wonder how TT would go.
The Dance Without End Begins..

Offline Dirty Harry

  • Marshal of the Phoenician Crusade
  • Supporter
  • Regent Of Terra
  • *
  • Posts: 2033
  • I'lll abhor the $#!7 out of that witch!
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2014, 02:51:06 AM »
I can't remember if Gorechild is unwieldy or not. If Kharn is swinging his axe at I1 step then the swarmlord has a big advantage. The bone sabers give SL AP 3, and cause instant death on a 6. If swarmlord swings first he forces Kharn to rely on invulnerable saves ( I don't remember if Kharn gets the standard 5+ daemon save or if he has a special invuln he can take. Swarmlord can tank wounds at T6 and benefits from a 4+ invul in assault. I have to reread swarmy's rules as well but I think he can give himself prefered enemy which will help minimize misses in combat. I'm uncertain of Kharns WS but swarmlord will most likely hit on 4's.
Don't try making a unit unkillable. its a waste of time and the dice gods laugh at you for wasting your time. Dedicate a unit to a job and make sure it does it til it's either dead or running.

Offline Angelic

  • Corsair of Yriel's Eldritch Raiders
  • Supporter
  • WARMASTER
  • *
  • Posts: 2215
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2014, 03:26:45 AM »
I think we're meant to discard the TT rules.. but i'll pm them to you.
The Dance Without End Begins..

Offline Neojarlaxe

  • Chapter Master
  • *
  • Posts: 566
    • View Profile
    • Campo de Batalla (Battlefield)
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2014, 02:10:51 PM »
Kharn will win, the Champion of Khorne cannot not die in that fight. He is damned to fight the Empire for the eternity Khorne will not allow him to die.
You are invited to my Blog and my YouTube Channel:
http://figurasvictorq.blogspot.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/neojarlaxe

Offline SailorCSN

  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 864
    • View Profile
Re: Kharn The Betrayer vs. Swarmlord
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2014, 07:17:45 PM »
Advantage The Betrayer. Swarmy would eat him in a single bio mass GW money grab fashion, and Kahrn would fight his way back out of the belly if the beast. Like the first Men In Black movie
So many books, so many Burning questions.