Author Topic: Thoughts on the new Avatar?  (Read 1863 times)

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Offline Flexarch

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Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« on: April 27, 2015, 04:34:01 AM »
Like the rest of you, I've been combing over the new book looking for fun new ideas. I've always been a fan of the Avatar from a fluff standpoint, and at various times it has actually done well for me, but as a whole I haven't seen anyone run him for quite some time. He's one of my favorite models, and did get a bit of an upgrade with the new book that's been overlooked by all the wraith knight hype. What are your thoughts on the possibility of using him now? He can give a lot to the Aspect formation, and I could see myself bubble wrapping him in a Guardian blob until he gets within striking distance. But then again, I'm not a very good 40k player, so what do the good players think? 

Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2015, 01:57:10 PM »
May not be a good player, but put the avatar in with scorpions, banchees, storm guardians, any melee squad really and they get impressive fast. Try home with 2+ wraithlords and enjoy rage and s9 or s10 depending if you bought the ghost glave or not.

Offline mcphro

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2015, 06:31:09 PM »
What he does,, is GREAT!

Keeping him alive because he is a Mountrous creature is what the issue is.

He is Toughness 6, 5+ Deamon and can be targetted as an individual. I would attach him to a craftworld warhost with jetbikes.

The jetbikes attack whatever is attacking the avatar. The avatar would be accompanied by as many aspects as I could. You run him through 4+ ruins on his path through the board. The WHOLE army will move 6", run 6" AWLAYS and any banshees will run an extra 3". The jetbikes are the distraction, but if you can keep the Avatar Alive then the rest of the army is superbuffed.

Offline Angelic

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2015, 06:41:53 PM »
Phro has the right idea, if you have a threat you don't necessarily want to be shot at, just add more threats. Storm Guardians with 4 Attacks each on the Charge.. at S4 and potentially 8 of those being AP3 thanks to Power Swords PLUS whatever your Warlock rolls on Runes of Battle...

Also with the Seer Council how hard is it to Fortune/Protect your avatar if we add auto running 6".. PLUS Aspects.. It's looking fun
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Offline Pdogg

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2015, 09:10:33 PM »
The avatar is one of the better fortune targets out there. I do play against crons alot so a lot of the attacks they shoot him with are not low ap so his 3+ is what is getting the reroll. In a foot list with a sword wielding wraithknight jumping/running 6 up the board(18" in their face each turn) he will have other threats to take pressure off him.

The list should have enough threats that need to be shot at, the scorpiens are pretty self sufficient as they are survivable until needed. I would still go defenders for guardiens as if they urd have better shooting than the charge anyways(leave the assault to the aspects). There is another threat in the spears zooming up to the back into cover and jinking if need be, their focus will be getting rid of vehicles. Banshees will need to be protected, they will stay back as they got the speed to move up faster than the rest as needed and act as cleanup instead of the first wave.

Here is the plan with the eldar warhost
The defender guardian battlehost(would have to prob focus more on the guardiens so less focus on extras)
Avatar
Cc aspect host(5 spears, 10 scorpiens, 6 banshees)
Wraithknight(w/ sword)
Thinking another shooty aspect host(with spiders, avengers and reapers) or going full dire avenger shrine

Wave 1 - The knight, spears and scorpiens would be up close t1 due to speed/infiltrate
Wave 2 - the avatar backed up by the dire avengers/some guardians(not all) and the heavy support weapon will either move up with them or fire if needed. I would consider the Farseer in the back of this wave buffing the avatar hopefully with fortune, if not that doing other runes of fate powers. The spiders if picked would come in wave 2 dealing with things that are pressing threats.
Wave 3 - more guardiens and this would be where the war walkers, vipers, banshees and reapers(if picked) would go.

Fritz always talks about the wave type lists and this by no means is the only way to go but it gives you a nice strategy to play with. I would prob use the d-cannons for platforms and the wraithknight has a d sword but I doubt anyone would call this army cheesy.

The knight would be a decent magnet that if not dealt with first will decimate the opponents back lines, but if he does go down trust those points went into saving your mostly weak foot army from being picked apart. That's what the first wave does best is to provide 3 shoot me now targets that are close enough to them that if not dealt with are an issue.

The second wave is there to follow up the first and quickly, the avatar will be as much of a target as the first wave stuff so would have to try and keep him safe unles fortune goes up and if it does he can take a beating. The supporting guardiens/dire avengers should shred some infantry. Those d-cannons will be another fire magnet, it's there to keep the weak troops safe from close up threats. They have to be protected from assault but the avatar and troops will bubble wrap them quite well.

3rd wave will be the fire support and objective campers any guardians here will be helping plink vehicles with a Brightlance or eml, and staying near the war walkers/vipers keeping them with prefered enemy.

This is my theory hammer for my ideal avatar list, it's definitly an army that would not have a huge amount of models left at the end of games but it still has the ability to win and in a way that would be insanely fun to play and play against.

Offline mcphro

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2015, 11:25:33 PM »
Phro has the right idea, if you have a threat you don't necessarily want to be shot at, just add more threats. Storm Guardians with 4 Attacks each on the Charge.. at S4 and potentially 8 of those being AP3 thanks to Power Swords PLUS whatever your Warlock rolls on Runes of Battle...

Also with the Seer Council how hard is it to Fortune/Protect your avatar if we add auto running 6".. PLUS Aspects.. It's looking fun

There is something else here. If you buy a warlock for each storm guardian squad, your getting conceal as well. So place terrain giving you "paths up the field" so when your running your 6" through cover, units like your storm guardians will get the 2 or 3+ cover save.

If you include someone like Fuegan out the front of the unit, you can elect for him to take the wound instead... this would start increasing his Str and attacks as well since wounds have to come from the front, then repair him with a warlock if you rolled Destructor/ Renewer which is a good chance you might have...

The other thing is to have as many small units as you can, so if they do target something, you can only loos emodels "generally" from that squad...

Perhaps a reason to also take shining spears with an Autarch for their CC...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 01:08:20 AM by mcphro »

Offline Angelic

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2015, 12:36:16 AM »
I'm thinking if you can have enough early game pressure on your enemy it might be fine. For example Infiltrating two units of Scorpions fairly close to your enemy, they benefit from Stealth and Shrouded until you get in to combat and we know the Exarch is an absolute monster.

Say two squads of them Infiltrating first turn, but what else.. Warp Spiders perhaps, since they're so quick but also deadly.. I have to think more about this.
The Dance Without End Begins..

Offline mcphro

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2015, 01:09:37 AM »
Angelic this is getting me all excited... so many options to take to try out. Im not even thinking about D weapons yet either!

Offline Angelic

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2015, 01:34:32 AM »
Deep Striking Falcons filled with Fire Dragons are a decent possibility.. Seer Council could certainly add pressure with Eldritch Storm.. i'll make a more comprehensive post later.
The Dance Without End Begins..

Offline DiscoStoo

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 04:55:03 PM »
I do love the avatar, and he's a brill great model (thinking forge world here) with lovely fluffy rules, but for me he'll never be part of a competitive army, as he's just too vulnerable.  He's no tougher than he was before and Even with fortune he'll go down pretty fast to any army with reasonable shooting, and once he's gone (second turn if that) those Storm guardians are just storm guardians again...

That said, he does make for a fun game!

Offline Corbarvius

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2015, 03:55:21 PM »
As DiscoStoo said, the Avatar is just too easy to kill.

Offline mcphro

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Re: Thoughts on the new Avatar?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2015, 06:43:16 PM »
I do love the avatar, and he's a brill great model (thinking forge world here) with lovely fluffy rules, but for me he'll never be part of a competitive army, as he's just too vulnerable.  He's no tougher than he was before and Even with fortune he'll go down pretty fast to any army with reasonable shooting, and once he's gone (second turn if that) those Storm guardians are just storm guardians again...

That said, he does make for a fun game!

Yea the trick is to be prepared to loose him. But if you ran a seer coucil  and pushed for invisability, (cant see the rule atm), if you could make him invisible then that would be scarey. Youd have to plan to look after him and thats the tax your would have to pay to keep him on the table.

Saying that, if your dont roll invisability, your screwed!