Author Topic: 3x Landraider – how to deal with  (Read 1995 times)

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Offline dannykay

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3x Landraider – how to deal with
« on: June 25, 2015, 05:12:21 AM »
Hiya All,
So here is a puzzle worth a mighty warlord. I have done quite a bit of research and so far came up with nothing; wonder if anybody would want to join the thinking process? The puzzle at hand is how to deal with 3 av14, here goes:
The opponent is the all-time favourite CSM fielding a setup consisting of 3 landraiders (2xTL lascanons) filled with regular marines complimented with some prince hanging out in the back. A measly 1250pts which leaves the opponent with 250 worth of points for other junk  in a 1500pt game. Game play follows the scheme: landraiders start deployed in the centre, left and right wings. At the first turn move forward to claim the objectives. In case objectives are distributed – the marines jump out (tank claims one, marines claim the other); procedure is repeated for all 3 landraiders. With good winds my buddy can score this way 3-4 points per turn, which is quite painful. In the event marines are at risk they jump back into the tank which gracefully moves on to claim another objective.
In case anything approaches the raiders, 2 TL lascanons (hitting on 4s) on each ensure it doesn’t survive for very long.

By the time we get to turn 3, loses on the CSM side (mainly due to silly mistakes and tau luck) are around 300pts (1 raider wrecked, few marines fried) while tau is taking heavy losses (40% wiped out or ran off the table).

So what tried to take on this setup – few approaches; in every approach there was a core consisting of:
•   3 squads of fire warriors in a devilfish,
•   1-2 squads of crisis suits (each with 2x plasma, EWO),
•   commander (2xplasma, DC, marker drones) + 1-2 bodyguards (2x plasma)

and then a few alternatives to take on the damned tanks with contents:
•   Approach 1: Fully loaded hammerhead with Longstrike + 2x piranhas (fusion blasters); results: piranhas got wrecked almost instantly, longstrike took 2 HP off 1 raider
•   Approach 2: 6x broadsides with railguns; results: took out 1 landrider after massive efforts and numerous attempts, other time ran off the table
•   Approach 3: deepstriking farsight with 4 crisis suits (each 2xfusion, one with PEC); results: killed 1 raider (barely!)
•   Approach 4: 2x riptides (ion acc, TL fusion); results: didn’t even manage to strip 1 HP
•   Approach 5 (which actually worked quite well, but I appreciate rules on IC and infiltrate are highly debatable): shadowsun + 2x crisis bodyguards (both 2x fusion) + crisis team (2x crisis each with 2xfusion) infiltrating; results: effective, but vulnerable once done with one raider to the wreath of the other 2 and everyone that is around; alternatively quite problematic if deployment is awkward – CMS make shadowsun top priority, and if they go first, well it doesn’t look peachy)

Anywho, I’m getting to the stage where I recognise I’m fighting a battle I can’t win – AV14 all around with 3HP? Scoring at that? And 3 of those? Going to a bigger game will just bring more of those, going lower will reduce the number to 2 or 1 but in parallel.
Any thoughts folks?

Offline Izzycat218

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Re: 3x Landraider – how to deal with
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2015, 07:37:15 AM »
Marines hit on threes with the lascannons and the landraiders should be four hull points. Fusion is the best option as far as guns are concerned. You seem to be not seeing emp grenades that fire warriors can take. They're haywire gernades. You could take a few small squads in devilish with disruption pods and rush the raiders with them. Otherwise two Forgeworld units have haywire guns. have you been using buff commander at all? He gives the unit twin-linked, ignores cover, and tank hunter. Should help your fusion suits or broadsides.

Offline dannykay

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Re: 3x Landraider – how to deal with
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2015, 01:35:22 AM »
Cheers Izzycat218!
I have been toying with the idea of emp granades, but then I have the anxiety the unit will be a one time use (LR will kill the devilfish while whatever crawls out of the LR will take care of fire warriors); points wise the swap seems reasonable (12warriors + devil fish for 1 dead LR ain’t that bad); still pondering the odds of CSM losing a tank vs me losing a transport, troop unit and maybe even the 2 drones; (that’s 3 units lost for 1).
I read a bit about the buffmander but never used it – will definitely try it; the way I have been using him was with marker drones + DC + EWO and plasmas (bs5, ap2 is just magical on any deep striking elites).
We learn everyday:)

Yup – I stand corrected (LR hit on 3 and have 4hp), thx! Even more cheese:(

Offline Izzycat218

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Re: 3x Landraider – how to deal with
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2015, 06:11:46 AM »
I wouldn't call three landraiders cheese. He's got 750pts base not counting upgrades in three tanks. 6-8 fire warriors should be able to get it done. Since you hit on 3s if he moved the previous turn or auto hit if he doesn't move. You could loose the devilfish on the was in but a 3+ jink should make it not so risky. Buffmander plus some fusion suits can deepstrike and should be able to take one out. Hope that the advice helps.

Offline Ash1986

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Re: 3x Landraider – how to deal with
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 04:20:31 PM »
Pathfinders with EMP grenades

Piranhas with 3+ jink and fusion.. Hide until opportunity arises and pop out.

Farsighted bomb. My old bomb would do over 2 land raiders easily a turn with 6 double melta re rolling ones, with tank hunter and split fire.

There is lots in the book. Just need to look deep

Offline dannykay

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Re: 3x Landraider – how to deal with
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 01:36:25 AM »
I tried the piranhas – I agree maybe not enough (I went with 2) and I wasn’t aggressive enough. After only one round, only feathers were flying, so much for piranhas. I read 4-6 is a good number. Hmmm….
I like farsight – together with 4 crisis suits with 2 fusions each works nice, only problem is bad rolls on deep strike. So far out of 2 games the red rooster arrived in turn 4 when it was all over The buffmander seems to work pretty well – I’m still figuring out a good combo (eg with 2 bodyguards – one loaded with signature systems so the commander can still shoot).

pathfinders... hmm.... this is an idea.... need to try that! thx!

I’m still amazed how potent the 3 LR setup is. Geebus… place it well (eg. behind a live wall/spam of cultists) and this thing is a freaken nightmare.

Offline Izzycat218

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Re: 3x Landraider – how to deal with
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2015, 10:25:25 AM »
I run a 4 landraider black Templar list to get to combat. They are quite affective if the opponent can't handle the raiders. But once they pop the stuff inside dies pretty fast with all the ap3 now days. Try to focus them down instead of spreading damage.