Author Topic: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?  (Read 3868 times)

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Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« on: October 23, 2015, 08:17:30 AM »
Brothers and sisters of our great society, I've noticed that we have seen our greatest hero's spirits go idle for far too long. Our wraithlords are quite possibly our best unit (my opinion) for the investment. I say this because the wraith knight is more than double the points for what? A gargantuan with s d somewhere on it. Where we can spend less points for an overall better combination of units in 2 lords. My questuon now is, why is the lord considered widly to be one of the worst units in the codex? Just curious. Let's here lots of opinions on this.

Offline DCannon4Life

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2015, 08:19:35 AM »
Dies to massed bolter fire. Is too slow. Doesn't bring any particular USRs to the table. :(
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Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2015, 08:43:58 AM »
Dies to massed bolter fire. Is too slow. Doesn't bring any particular USRs to the table. :(

Thought being t8 made it immune to regular bolter fire? also what's a USR?

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2015, 08:55:47 AM »
Universal Special Rule.  Like Eldar Jetbikes have an improved Turboboost, or War Walkers have Battle Focus, or Tau Riptides with Novacharge.  Something that makes them stand out above the rest of their class.  But a Wraithlord can't do anything that a 50pt Necron Tomb Spyder or Dark Eldar Talos can't do outside of guns.  Not to mention it's outdated and left behind while the game got stronger.  T8 is good, by all means, but not invulnerable.  It dies just as fast as anything else to a lot of weapons.  Sniper, Poisoned, Lascannons, Force, that sort of thing.

A Wraithknight has two Str D shots, 8 S6 shots, Stomp, FNP, immune to Instant Death and is ONLY twice the price.  Ever seen a Wraithknight delete a TWC squad?  Or an Imperial Knight?  Or a pair of Flyrants per turn?  It's scary.  Wraithlords are like a Carnifex, relics from 3rd Edition that haven't been improved enough to be good anymore when every gun in the game is a world ending cataclysmic shot.

Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2015, 09:19:22 AM »
A Wraithknight has two Str D shots, 8 S6 shots, Stomp, FNP, immune to Instant Death and is ONLY twice the price.  Ever seen a Wraithknight delete a TWC squad?  Or an Imperial Knight?  Or a pair of Flyrants per turn?  It's scary.  Wraithlords are like a Carnifex, relics from 3rd Edition that haven't been improved enough to be good anymore when every gun in the game is a world ending cataclysmic shot.

I thought they could only choose 2 of their weapons just as monstrous creatures, they could just choose different targets. the fireing all weapons was what ICD10 (what ever that is) rules (so I've heard)

Universal Special Rule.  Like Eldar Jetbikes have an improved Turboboost, or War Walkers have Battle Focus, or Tau Riptides with Novacharge.  Something that makes them stand out above the rest of their class.  But a Wraithlord can't do anything that a 50pt Necron Tomb Spyder or Dark Eldar Talos can't do outside of guns.  Not to mention it's outdated and left behind while the game got stronger.  T8 is good, by all means, but not invulnerable.  It dies just as fast as anything else to a lot of weapons.  Sniper, Poisoned, Lascannons, Force, that sort of thing.


As far as the Wraithlords getting left behind, I really cant imagine what they would need to get up with the times. They have great body armor for the army (the same armor save as a knight). They can hit s10 with A5 on the charge when running with an avatar. I believe they can have FNP 5+ with a Wraithseer on the table. they can also be a threat at really any range, melee (ghostglaive), long range (brightlance/scatter laser/star cannon), and mid (flamers). Has GW really done the same thing to Lords as they have with banchees as far as making them a sweeper/rear guard unit?

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2015, 09:39:36 AM »
ITC has ruled that they can fire all weapons they are equipped with, and if I remember right multiple emails to GW have said the same thing.  Since we don't get FAQs anymore, we make do with what we have.  I know that my area plays ITC FAQ because we're so close to all of those events, and due to the popularity of ITC it's a common ruling in clubs.  In the US.  Not sure where you are or what is normal there.  The adopted FAQ of your area does have an impact on what the Wraithknight can do, no doubt about that.

Wraithknights have the same melee potential, plus Stomp which is incredible.  Buying a Wraithseer is another 115+pts if I remember right?  On top of the points needed for the Wraithlords...  And removes a slot of a Farseer?  That's a big downside there when it comes natural in the LOW slot Wraithknight.  Long Range is really a nonissue because everything the Lord can get, the Knight can too.  I even think it's the same price.  Flamers are the exception but who needs it when the Suncannon puts out 3 S6 AP2 blasts...

It's not that the Lord is bad.  It's just a relic that doesn't do as much or survive as much as more recent additions to the army list.  Usually, the same amount of points for a Wraithlord would be better spent on Scatbikes.  The price of two would be better spent on a Wraithknight.  Like the price of two Carnifex is better spent on a Flyrant.

Offline Fritz40K

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2015, 10:20:00 AM »
Wraithlords are/still one of my favorite models from the Eldar line in both model looks and narrative. I have five of them in my warhost.

Sadly, I agree, like the Carnifex they are a relic of the past in that they used to be tough to deal with and the game has passed them by- GW would need to reduce the price, given them a twist in terms of powers, and then let you take them in units. Wasn't there a forgeworld psychic wraithlord? Make it like the BA libby dread.

Problem is T8 isn't much a problem- plasma, mass S6, D weapons, etc. all bypass it, and its weapon output is lacking.

It pains me to be doom and gloom on it.

BUT I do find mine coming out in smaller 750 ish point games and combat patrol like games, where it is still expensive, but T8, multiple wounds and its weapon performance suddenly becomes quite useful.

Had TONS of fun playing smaller 40K games at one of GW's Games Days with my wraithlords a few years back.

Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2015, 11:48:32 AM »
While it saddens me to say it. Y'all are right. I used to field 2 in my very first list. Now they just sit and collect dust... Guess it was inevitable. Thanks for the input

Offline Jeppe Danning

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 01:41:37 AM »
Everytime a see a post like this, I just have to try the unit out ;D

I see and acknowlegde all the comments, and tend to agree, as a bit of str 7/8/9 hits will tear them apart. Because somehow you have to keep them on open ground in order to reach the enemy by turn 4 (not having fleet really hurts ;)), moving through cover would slow them even further down.

But, I ran 2 in my list yesterday against a tyranidplayer - and they worked wonders. Havent played a lot againt tyranids before, but I quickly realised that they seriously lack weapons that can hurt T8. So, from this day on, Wraithlords are the choice against Nids, as they literally eat MC´s for breakfast :P (Allthough I think he will bring carnifexes next time - and I welcome the challenge)

Another bonus is the double flamer against the Gaunts - works wonders, and makes the opponent think twice about trying to tie them up with the cheap little buggers!

Our league is played in a way, that you know the opponent 2 weeks in advance, as well as the scenario - which makes it far more easy to feild a Wraithlord against the "right" opponents, and dont feel like you´ve wasted the points. In a tournament, or "show up and play whoever is there", the Wraithlord becomes less apealing!

Anyways, just wanted to share this positive experience with you all! And not to forget, the model lookes awesome on the battlefield...

/Jeppe D

Offline cavalier

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2015, 05:36:51 AM »
I used a Wraithlord in a casual game against Tau a few weeks back and he was probably my MVP.
He was armed with Brightlance, Scatter Lasers, Double-Flamer and Wraithsword.  It was played on a good terrain heavy board, and he was basically just protecting my lines and giving support fire as I advanced. I had him just a bit toward one flank, daring my opponent to deepstrike Farsight and his big unit of Crisis Suits into my ranks which he did. Within two turns my Wraithlord was on them and just hammered them.

With the ubiquity of Grav though running him in a pickup environment is very hard. However if you are playing with friends and have a rough idea of what they are bringing he can be excellent. I'd run him against anything besides Space Marines. Run him conservativley, keep him behind cover to protect your lines and anchor key positions on the table and keep your shooting units out of combat.





Offline Bearded Beheader

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2015, 07:11:02 AM »
I just busted mine out two weeks ago and he didn't do bad at all.

I agree with what everyone said. My Tau friend and I were just talking yesterday about this and the regular dreadnaught's too; that is that they really could use some points drop to see them in the 1850 type lists.

That being said, they fair extremely well in smaller games, where you are not going to take a Wraithknight. Or, if you are playing a game where no LOW's are allowed, then their usefulness comes back real quick.

I believe it just comes down to your play style and who you play with. If you want to field them, then you will find a way to make it work.

Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2015, 09:04:19 PM »
A friend of mine who plays orcs was in town visiting from where he moved. And I ran 3 lords with an avatar supporting them. We had dawn if war deployment and by turn 2 they were upon his trucks wrecking them. We played 2k and they were the mvps. I still revel in the 5 s 10 ap2 attacks at t8. I may try and run them with a wraithseer to try some fnp shenanigans with them later on.

Online mcphro

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2015, 02:02:15 AM »
Also your immune to Str 4 attacks... so by having 1 Avatar, 1 Wraithseer, 3 wraithlords would be really hurty. But throw in the wraithknight just to add some salt to the wounds!

Online FartherSeer15

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2015, 11:07:07 AM »
That, sir, would net 2 LOW I would clarify with my opponent before hand, unless you guys play in an area where table-flipping/ screaming and whining are not an issue hahahha

Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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Re: Why are wraithlords never used anymore?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2015, 12:57:29 PM »
My meta is marines, and cheez. So they would complain about mine but we have a player who runs a gk Libbi bomd as well as a player who runs heavy grav ad mec, and a space marine parking lot army. Cheeze usually begets cheeze