Author Topic: Librarius Conclave  (Read 15949 times)

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Offline verbalunderbelly

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Librarius Conclave
« on: March 30, 2016, 07:56:33 AM »
Hi I was just wondering about the librarius conclave I got the impression the other librarians could still manifest at the end of the psychic phase but I've been reading people are of the opinion that they they can't - can you guys shed some light on the matter please?

Offline SharkoutofWata

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2016, 08:24:49 AM »
End of the phase means the actual end of the phase, as in nothing else can be done and the phase is finished.  If you try to stop time to cast a power in the Psychic Phase, it's not the end of the phase and they don't have permission to yet.  They only have permission to use a power when the option to cast that power has already passed.  That way they can use their powers next turn or if there is a way to cast out of sequence powers in a rule we don't have right now.

Offline Morollan

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2016, 09:00:20 AM »
It's very poorly worded and should simply have been "however, other Librarians from this Formation within 12" of the nominated
Librarian cannot manifest psychic powers this turn"

Offline weboflies

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2016, 03:59:02 PM »
This might be a good one to submit for the faq they're collecting on the new GW facebook page. I always wondered exactly what they were getting at by that. If they wanted to leave it open for out-of -sequence powers, they easilly could have just said that they may not use powers for the remainder of that psychic phase.

I interpret it to mean that the nominated psyker can access the others' powers, and the others may also use powers themselves, potentially using the same power twice (which is not notrmally allowed), but if they do so, that will put an end to the nominated psyker being able to use any of his own powers, and his psychic test bonus for that phase.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 11:08:49 PM by weboflies »

Offline verbalunderbelly

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2016, 08:52:32 AM »
Are there any gamers out there that think the opposite? That the "other" librarians CAN use their powers after?

Offline Sadclown

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2016, 01:23:02 PM »
When a rule mentions a specific timing, like beginning of the phase or end of the phase the action takes place at that time during te ohase mentioned. A great example would be Intercepter which begins, "at the end of the enemy movement phase." The wording in the command benefit for Librarius Conclave is not as clear, however, that wording does not necessitate a rereadin that the other librarians are unable to cast that turn.

Is this powerful? Sure, however it is not any mote powerful than any of the other already powerful abilities tjat exist in the game at the moment.

Offline Brother Sgt Kartr

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2016, 06:24:31 AM »
How is the "end of the phase" defined? When all actions in the phase have been taken and right before you move to the next phase (paraphrasing).

So for Interceptor you get to fire it at the end of the enemy movement phase after they have moved everything, but before they start their psychic phase. It kicks in after the opposing player has done everything.

Librarius Conclave the non-nominated librarians within 12" cannot cast until the end of the phase. The end of the phase is after you have cast everything and right before you move to your shooting phase. If the non-nominated librarians cast, then by definition you have not cast everything and thus are not in the "end of the phase" and the non-nominated librarian is prohibited from casting.

TL;DR The non-nominated librarian(s) cannot cast because "the end of the phase" comes after ALL casting is complete and if they cast then not all casting is complete and you're not in "the end of the phase."

Offline weboflies

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2016, 10:55:22 PM »
If they don't address this in the Errata, this is going to be one of those "roll for it" things. It's not clear either way.

Offline SharkoutofWata

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2016, 12:48:07 AM »
I don't see how "however, other Librarians (~) cannot manifest psychic powers until the end of the phase" is unclear other than the exact moment the Psychic Phase ends.  I'm even more confused how you can get your interpretation from that considering it plainly violates a Psychic Unit, if they're in a single unit together, casting the same power twice and there is absolutely nothing saying or hinting that that rule can be disregarded.  Can you explain your thought process to get to your interpretation?

Offline weboflies

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2016, 02:25:53 AM »
It's not a unit. It's a formation. the rules for units do not apply to formations. Based on my interpretation, no one "unit" is casting the power twice. They don't hand the way to use this to your advantage on a silver platter, but that doesn't mean that that's not what was intended. I think it's possible the wording is intentionally vague.  To me "may not cast until the end" means you go last. The end of a movie is still part of the movie, not the sequel. The end of a sporting event is the last two minutes, not the post-game show. Based on the wording of the rules it's an equally valid interpretation to yours. It might seem cheesy, but as has been said, no more so than any number of things that any number of formations can do in the game right now. Maybe they'll clarify in FAQ, if not, I don't see any fair and reasonable way to settle it other than rolling for it.

Offline weboflies

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2016, 02:34:22 AM »
Both interpretations infer something that is not stated in the language, and neither is contradicted by anything in the language. Neither one is any more of a reach than the other.

Offline SharkoutofWata

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2016, 02:54:58 AM »
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to argue, I was just curious how you got to that conclusion.  As long as the models in your Formation are not part of the same unit, I can understand, not agree with but understand, that interpretation.

Offline Sensenbob

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2016, 03:23:34 AM »
Well for a movie the ending might be a 10 minutes lasting scene, so it kind of is part of the movie.
but:
The ending of the phase is just one point in time at which the phase ends immediately, so the psychic phase will just be over at the time you want the other libbys to cast and you cant use psychic powers outside of the psychic phase :(
The formation only disables the psykers within 12'' to the casting one so you can still have others cast which are further away, if you position an plan it right.
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Offline weboflies

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2016, 06:37:39 AM »
Is there somewhere in the rules that defines the end of the phase in this way? I'm not aware of it. Others have cited examples of the end of the phase being described as I am interpreting it though. it's a different phase than the action being taken, but regardless, it defines the end of the phase as part of the phase.

Offline Kvekan

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Re: Librarius Conclave
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2016, 07:02:47 AM »
When an argument contains this phrase: "I think it's possible the wording is intentionally vague." I think you're starting to reach for straws. I think GW tries to make the rules crystal clear, they just don't alwats succeed! I mean no offense, truly :)

I just don't see how it would make any difference to add "until the end of the phase" if it's not prohibiting anything. If the end of the phase is just going to be "every other psychic action after the first one I used with my formation" it's not really necessary to add. There's nothing forcing you to cast in a specific order.

Also to quote page 24 of the rulebook: "if, after resolving a psychic action - such as manifesting a psychic power - the player whose turn it is has 0 warp charge points remaining, the psychic phase ends". That is the end of the psychic phase and even if you could cast more powers in theory with the formation, which I am not saying, without warp charges it's not gonna happen.

I really don't like RAI vs RAW debates, but I think the intent is quite clear, from my point of view.
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