Author Topic: Should DA get benefits for using plasma based weaponry?  (Read 1785 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Should DA get benefits for using plasma based weaponry?
« on: July 23, 2016, 08:57:43 PM »
Hello everyone so as you could tell form the title of this post I am curious as to if you guys share my opinion that we should get some benefit for using plasma, i.e. get it for cheaper 10 points? or maybe be able to re-roll gets hot? I really do want to know what you guys think of this idea. I know we can already put plasma on almost anything we have but do you think we should be able to get a bonus for taking it aside form just having more plasma?
  • Dark Angels

Offline Tobas DA

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: Should DA get benefits for using plasma based weaponry?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 11:56:05 AM »
I think yes. I want to use plasma with my Dark Angels and I did not convert any bike to grav. But plasma is a frustrating weapon with overheating. It does not seem right for a space marine to use a weapon that is unsafe and will kill you sooner or later.

One side is, should the main rule for plasma be changed? I have the following house-rule: All plasma weapons have two firing modes, safe mode (S6, AP3) and full power mode (S7, AP2, gets hot). S6, AP3 is good enough most of the time (space marine equivalent target, wounds on 2+, no armor save)   

If you fire at a high T or a 2+ save target you can risk the full power mode.

Should DA gain an additional bonus for plasma weapons? Maybe a 5 points decrease on all plasma weapons to encourage taking plasma over grav weapons (plasma pistol is to expensive anyway). I would be happy with the "safe mode" rule.

Offline Tobas DA

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: Should DA get benefits for using plasma based weaponry?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 12:09:02 PM »
Addition: It would also speed up the game. In safe mode you can roll all plasma shots together.

If I fire a veteran squad with 5 combi plasma guns (or a black knight squad) I will roll for every model separate because in rapid fire range you could loose more models to overheat, if rolled together.

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Re: Should DA get benefits for using plasma based weaponry?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2016, 06:21:19 PM »
I really like the thinking behind this and the house rule a very well thought out one as well.

But personally as already stated maybe instead of bringing plasma down in price, let DA be able to reroll gets hot. I think DA should be the only ones to do it though because we love our plasma and to show for it we have the potential to fore see the danger of the gun, this also gives another excuse to keep it at its current points cost of 15. You suggest decreasing the price but with DA being able to reroll the gets hot, justifies the gets hot as you can still kill yourself but its less likely and you pay more points for it than a melta gun which has less range but more is a more reliable weapon.
  • Dark Angels

Online SharkoutofWata

  • Chapter Master
  • *
  • Posts: 700
    • View Profile
Re: Should DA get benefits for using plasma based weaponry?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2016, 08:20:03 PM »
Maybe I'm not overly familiar with Dark Angels, but why should they get snowflake treatment when it comes to plasma?  I was under the impression that they just use it more, not that they have some hidden STC that makes it better than the rest of the Imperium's.  The fact their Blackwing Knights get it on all of their Bikes is a massive benefit alone.  I don't see how buffing the strong choice is a benefit to the game or to the fluff it might represent.

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Re: Should DA get benefits for using plasma based weaponry?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2016, 01:40:08 PM »
DA should get "snowflake treatment", with plasma because while yes our bikers can take it, and we can take plasma on almost everything including terminators.

We should get it to distinguish us more so from the vanilla marine book. An example would be that vanilla marines have one of the best units in the game centurions, so DA should in my opinion have something powerful as well, granted we have arguably the best bikers in the game. This would come in the form of having some benefit to using plasma weaponry other than oh hey we can take a lot of plasma. So let me raise your question with a question, why should vanilla Space Marines have centurions and other Marine armies Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels not have the toys that vanilla marines have? why should they get "snowflake treatment" with centurions and other units.

(I remember reading this somewhere and am actively searching for where it was but this is what i can remember so please take this part with a grain of slat) Dark Angels were also the first legion of Marines, having direct access to the wargear the Emperor had in the beginning of the crusade on Terra. So maybe just give DA some of those special things they had access to back 10,000 years ago some of which are still sitting in the rock collecting dust mind you, which would also pardon them from not having something like centurions.

Lastly I would like to thank all of you who have been discussing this with me, this is all based on my own opinion so please take this with a grain of salt and i doubt gw will give DA a buff like this anytime soon.
  • Dark Angels

Online SharkoutofWata

  • Chapter Master
  • *
  • Posts: 700
    • View Profile
Re: Should DA get benefits for using plasma based weaponry?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2016, 09:41:33 PM »
Dark Angels get the fancy Land Speeders, Deathwing Knights which add a LOT of options to Terminators, Ravenwing which add a lot of options to Bikes, two unique flyers, unique detachments based around their 1st and 2nd Companies, rerollable 2+ cover saves, artifacts that just wreck Chaos face for being Chaos which is the best representation of tabletop racism ever and still makes me, a Chaos player, cry.  That's a lot of stuff to set you apart from vanilla, and a lot of it is competitive, not counting Characters.

The entire Imperium has lost technology between the foundation of the Legions and the present.  Relics from way back when are called relics for a reason.  Treated with unbelievable reverence or hoarded for the Grand Poobah to use once in a millennia.  Ravenwing Master's Jetbike is a prime example.  Every Dark Angel, every Space Marine, could have had access to jetbikes and in 30k it's a unit that is very powerful, but 10k years later, a Jetbike is so rare, only one guy can ride the ones they have left.  Why shouldn't that be the same with the plasma weapons like Lion's Roar (I think that's the right one...)?  There's an old fashioned safe plasma relic.

To directly answer your question about Centurions and other units only in vanilla, a good fluff excuse is that the Chapters with their own books are so steeped in tradition that they don't readily accept new wargear like the 'boring' line Chapters.  Dark Angels and the rest are considered very old fashioned and pretty reclusive groups, so they don't line up to share and invite others in to share with them.  To answer it from a game perspective, there has to be a reason to take vanilla over these single book Chapters, so the Dark Angel book gets all the stuff they do, vanilla gets their unique stuff to entice people there, Blood Angels get their unique stuff and so on.  If they just gave Dark Angels everything and a plasma bonus, who in their right mind would buy the vanilla codex?  They'd run Dark Angels that look like Ultramarines or some such thing.  Shouldn't have one book be overpowered to that degree, just have them different.

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Re: Should DA get benefits for using plasma based weaponry?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2016, 09:43:25 AM »
Well you are right in every regard in your agrument and thank you for reminding me about these things maybe this was just me being a little to stubborn about the argument, which is funny because well grim resolve.

Also yes you are correct the Lion's Roar is a combi plasma which the plasma gun half is a one use only, mater crafted, assault 1, blast.

Perhaps the reason I was arguing this is the first place is because well I normally role bad for plasma, and armor saves. But more so maybe because another good friend of mine plays ultra smurfs and normally uses calgar, tigurius, a Imperial Knight and 2 tac squads. Which I normally lose to because phase form, and I do not have the money or models to stop that combo.

Heck this might be me being stubborn again but maybe we should have some buffs to our named characters for just quality of life changes, for example can our Lord of War please have Eternal Warrior, and Asmodia have some better stats on his blades of reason, granted instant death is nothing to laugh at but a normal interrogator chaplain on a bike with a fist is so much better, for 15 points more. Or maybe give Ezekiel a buff for using interromancy. I do however think that Belial and Sammael are in the right place for now, not including Sammael's eternal warrior which I think should go to Azrael. But once again this could just be me being stubborn

Regardless though thank you for everything and that goes for everyone else who has replied on this topic as well.
  • Dark Angels