Author Topic: Black Templars where to start?  (Read 3019 times)

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Online Nightwing7x

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Black Templars where to start?
« on: August 27, 2016, 07:01:20 PM »
Hello everyone so I am posting this to help a friend of mine who is just now getting backinto 40k and has decided to make a Black Templars army. He previously played Blood Angels. Bear in mind as you read this however we do not have a Space Marine Codex as of me writing this but will be getting one in the near future.

My question to you is what to use? and what units should he be using? Personally I look at an army and I say use what makes that army that army, so in this case the Emperor's Champion, Crusader Squads, Helbrech and  Helbrecht and Grimaldus.  So the question now becomes are these named characters worth their points, the reason I ask this is because I am a Dark Angel player people like Asmodia to me are just not worth their points for what they do.

Then comes the question of what new models to get, I think the start collecting boxes along with scout boxes should be good to start out with to make crusader squads. As previously mentioned as well my friend was a Blood Angel player, so the models he does have from what I can remember is as follows: land raider (not sure what pattern), 6 assault squads, 2 10 tactical squads, a captain, and 2 5 man terminator squads. So what would be a good points limit to start playing a solid list with this in mind?

Offline Dirty Harry

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 07:36:01 PM »
Okie dokie. So assuming he might want to repurpose his blood angels collection, he can repurpose his assault Marines into crusader squads if he changes the jump packs to power packs. Now as for character models, best bang for your buck is a chaplain. Give him a plasma pistol and you can take him as a cheap chaplain with a good gun, or as Grimaldus, which comes with a 6 in zealot bubble, and a 12 in morale bubble. Good support if your friend wants to run an on foot focused list. My favorite character I take with my Templars is the Emperor's champ, which in my opinion is a combat beast. He'll cut down anything that doesn't have eternal warrior.
Don't try making a unit unkillable. its a waste of time and the dice gods laugh at you for wasting your time. Dedicate a unit to a job and make sure it does it til it's either dead or running.

Online Nightwing7x

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 09:20:52 PM »
Thank you for the insight my loyal battle brother.

If I may ask though what about the chapter master of the Templar's Helbrecht. Also the Chaplain and the Emperor's Champion ideas sounds very solid, is there any other HQ choices that work very well? Also are scouts worth taking in the crusader squads or sword brothers for that matter? Another thing you said that those were good choices for a foot list, well then what would be different in a mechanized list? I wouldn't imagine much more than just razor backs, rhinos and the drop pod here and there, but I did hear that apparently crusader squads can take a land raider crusader as dedicated transport, which would make sense because crusades but was not sure if this was true or not.

Lastly would dreadnoughts be good for Templar's? If so which ones? I am only familiar with the normal and venerable versions as Dark Angels do not have Iron Clad Dreadnoughts.

Thank you again.

 

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2016, 04:44:47 AM »
Chapter Master Helbrecht has some cool functions on the table, but because his ability is a once per game thing, so it requires some skill in positioning units. He essentially allows all black Templars to have fleet and hatred for one turn, whic if used well enough, can win games when paired with their chapter tactics. I've never been able to make him work well but I roll terribly when it comes to assault charges. As far as putting neophytes in Crusader squads, I do it myself regularly. I take groups of 20 guys with a power fist and a melta gun and run em on foot. If I want to run them in a Crusader I take 15 man squads. In a drop pod or rhino I take 1 sword brother, 4 initiates and 4 neophytes. This load out is usually taken with a melta gun and a gravcannon. Good shooting unit with bolters and shotguns.

Now, something I've seen work surprisingly well is to take Helbrecht with a squad of scouts. They're a cheap unit that can take casualties, make the chapter tactics work, and the scouts Move Through Cover special rule allows more instances of Helbrecht closing the gap and getting into combat. Also forgot to mention Helbrecht's sword gives d3 attacks on the charge and actually stacks with rage, so you can potentially clean up an entire unit on the charge with him.

Few things I've learned over the years, not to forget. Templars all have Crusader, which allows better roll averages for running as well as +d3 on sweeping advance moves. That extra d3 has allowed me to wipe units of slaanesh cults, as well as some unlucky Eldar units on sweeping advances. Neat little over looked asset.

On the subject of dreadnoughts, there are several schools of thought but personally I like either an ironclad with two close combat weapons, bare bones in squads of 3 on foot, and venerable with lascannon and missile launcher. Ironclad has the seismic hammer, a dreadnought fist (I THINK they benefit from the +1 attack) and frag launchers. Ironclads can potentially knock over scary things like Imperial knights. The bare basic dreadnoughts in 3's are pretty much just a means to bun rush the field and hit hard for 100 pts per model. The venerable I like to make a heavy weapons platform because I feel taking advantage of the improved BS is better than the WS. You can shoot a gun and hit on 2's. Even with WS5 the best you can hit on in assault is a 3. Remember what I mentioned previously about Grimaldus and Helbrecht? Their special abilities can work in conjunction with dreadnoughts too, so while they by themselves really only benefit from the Crusader Special rule of their chapter tactics, Grimaldus can still give them zealot, and Helbrecht can give them hatred and fleet.

Anything else you curious about?
Don't try making a unit unkillable. its a waste of time and the dice gods laugh at you for wasting your time. Dedicate a unit to a job and make sure it does it til it's either dead or running.

Online Nightwing7x

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2016, 02:56:07 PM »
Thank yo for all of the help you have given me and my friend firstly.

There is not much else that I think should be said aside from just upgrades and how many units of what to use for example how many crusader squads do you often find yourself using and in what configuration? So the raider, drop pod or rhino.  Also what upgrades are you often using in those squads, not including the addition of neophytes. Then onto the next question that being warlord traits, should you be rolling on the vanilla traits table or the one in the Angels of Death supplement? Lastly are there any other supplements for Templar's?  I was looking though an open copy of the Angels of Death book at my local store and all I could find for Templar's was a warlord traits table, and was very let down as I feel they should have had more than just that.

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2016, 07:11:21 PM »
Unfortunately Templars weren't given any love outside of the warlord traits that were copied into Angels of Death from an issue of white dwarf. I personally prefer those over the standard warlord trait table in the space marine book. I haven't rolled for warlord traits out of the core book in a while, but when I did I always tried for Conquerer of cities (move through cover in ruins) and master of deception (d3 infiltrate troops I think?)

In Crusader squads of 20 guy groups,just melta gun and powerfist for me. I like having the ap2 tools for handling light armor. In smaller groups, like 5 man, I just take em as 5 guys, bare bones in a razorback. If I have extra points I'll pay the 10 pts to put an extra body in there. Good little objective grabber that isn't too expensive.

Terminators, I don't own any shooting ones, but I've always liked a cyclone missile in a squad of 5.
Assault terminators, I run a sergeant with claws, and 4 guys with hammers and shields.
Sternguard I just take on foot and take advantage of the ammo with solid range. I never cared much for giving those guys upgrades.
Not a fan of vanguard, only because I think command squads can do their job better, on bikes and in an apothecary.
Oh, another alternative HQ I forgot to mention- I have a techmarine I've been using since 5th edition that has done some glorious stuff. I've always taken him with the shield eternal, and he's always made his points back. My emperor's champ is my head hunter, but my techmarine is my wall and he does his job so well.

Currently my favorite formations to run with templars are:

First company task force

Skyhammmer anihilation force

I forget the name of the land raider formation, but I like that one too.

Don't try making a unit unkillable. its a waste of time and the dice gods laugh at you for wasting your time. Dedicate a unit to a job and make sure it does it til it's either dead or running.

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2016, 08:57:33 PM »
Okay sounds like a very solid plan and strategy thank you for all of the help and hope to see my friends Templar's holding their on the table top.

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2016, 09:47:14 PM »
Definitely wouldn't mind hearing about more Templar success. While they don't have access to a lot of the flexibility and tools that white scars and Ultra Marines, BT still have advantages of being taken in CADs, formations as well as a Gladys strike force.
Don't try making a unit unkillable. its a waste of time and the dice gods laugh at you for wasting your time. Dedicate a unit to a job and make sure it does it til it's either dead or running.

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2016, 10:14:32 PM »
I cannot wait myself to see how they fair in my local meta and hope to report back with that of a successful report. Hopefully my friend does not go up against the eldar or grey knight players right off the bat. Actually come to think of it my last question would be can Templar's not take librarians at all even through allies?

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2016, 10:53:59 PM »
They can't take any psykers as a part of their force org but you can take em in separate detachments. BT actually mix really well with inquisitors and grey Knight characters.
Don't try making a unit unkillable. its a waste of time and the dice gods laugh at you for wasting your time. Dedicate a unit to a job and make sure it does it til it's either dead or running.

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Re: Black Templars where to start?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2016, 10:06:30 PM »
Well my loyal brothers I sorrowful to inform you that my friend who decided to play Templar's has decided he will instead pick up where he left off with his Blood Angels. Maybe someday I will take up the mantle of the Templar's for myself as they seem very fun and enjoyable as an army plus their lore is very good as well. I still however would like to thank you Dirty Harry for your vast help with this matter of the tactics on Templar's.