Author Topic: Eldar Against the new GSC  (Read 2752 times)

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Online Chmmr_X

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Eldar Against the new GSC
« on: November 07, 2016, 07:49:24 PM »
hey guys

Discussion topic! Any good ideas on how to deal with the new GSC? I tried a game with them with my fun Wraithlord list... and got totally TOTALLED by them, despite the multiple flamers I got in my list. The flamers were probably the only thing that allowed me to survive for as long as I did (Turn 2 to be exact...). I feel that the army totally nullifies all the advantages you get as Eldar. They deploy at your doorstep in turn 1 and can totally lock you in by their sheer numbers.

Deploying separately is the worst idea as they can get isolated and eradicated, then redeploy to reinforce other sections with their cult ambush rule.

Since they are so dense, there's no way you can use your speed to run or turbo boost. Even if you managed to with 36" turboboost with jetbikes, you are not that far away for them to catch up with you or they can just return to the shadows and appear at your door step again.

Eldar is really quite bad in assault. Their Genestealers at your doorstep and all will easily tear apart any vehicle or Wraith Knights the Eldar have with no room to maneuver.

So far I feel the biggest damage this does to Eldar is that it gives them absolutely no room for them to maneuver and utilize their main strength, which is their speed. And since Eldar is not resilient and have low numbers, this really works against them very VERY badly. And the list I tried is a typical Genestealer cult army that is not even optimised yet (testing stage) and I had absolutely no chance.

Anybody have any good ideas?

Online mcphro

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2016, 03:22:40 AM »
I dont know if this is a good idea or not, but its something id like to try.

I think buy the 3 different battlehosts available to us.
Tactic 1 - ground denial. Spread your forces out their 2" and cover your end. Limit the number of places they can come out of. Dont they need to roll a 6" to assault you?So they may come out close, but if you spread your guys out, even flamers wont just you too much.

Tactic 2 - This list has 21 units and 207 available rending shots. Make it it known to them. Use your mental games. Let them know some of that is at BS5 too. Let them know you have Guide and Prescience so most of your army (6 units per turn) can be twin linked. If you add the Psychic shrieks as shooting, then you actually have more then 207 shots

Tactic 3 - Bubble wrap. Create layers of defense designed to lose units deliberately. Let him assault a guardian unit and wipe it out, you shoot back with your 20 units and wipe him out. Let him Kill your 90pt unit and WIN!

But that is my suggestion, bubble wrap, let him pop out, react against those units and wipe them out. Dont try to play traditional speedy eldar. With battle focus you can run over the board shooting anyway.

This list might go down in a heap.. who knows... but this is my take on things.

The 3 Battlehost-Stormhost-Windrider 207 RENDING SHOTS (yes you read that right)host Fearless army 1850ish points
--------------------------------------------------------------
- 21 combat units
- feel free to change what you like, but ill briefly go through it.
- I havent properly faced GSC yet, but I get the impression they hit hard and can come out of nowhere.

Now for the real games... the mind games! You want to let your opponent know you've got 21 units that can rend and ignore armour. Not counting farseers, thats at least 207 shots. Let them know... yes.. you pop out of that cover. No.. stay in cover, it wont save you!

Not to mention the 2 x full shadowweaver arty with warlocks and farseers. This is where you hide 2 farseers whose whole goal in life, is GUIDE, PRESCIENCE and Psychic Shriek! So twin linked Str 6 shooting, so what units they do deploy, you are pouring fire on. So if they stand back, great battlefocus and rain twin linked fire from 3 Farseers (Guide, Prescience) on them. If they do come close, bubblewrap and countershoot

Second.. psykers!
- You have 3 farseers + warlocks
- at the very least, conceal with the farseer/s on bikes with spears you have a chance for protect. But the bikes give you a hammer against the anvil of the rest of your force. I like to pile ALL my bikes and flank the opponent when needed and just move through the flank. You may play like this or just use them for objectives.

Antitank
- since platforms are free, you can put brightlances on them, add the melta from storm guardians

Counter their Deep strike
Dont forget: 2" between models is your friend and you with COVER your end of the board. Buy eliminating where and how they can pop up, it doesnt always give them a lot of options. If they have flamers, 2" means not so many models die.

Guardian battlehost
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Farseer with stones
10 Guardian defenders with free weapon platform
10 Guardian defenders with free weapon platform
10 Guardian defenders with free weapon platform
3 x Shadoweavers (vauls battery) + WARLOCK
1 x Vyper squadron (1 x cannon, 1 scatterlaser)
1 x Warwalker (scatterlasers)

Guardian Stormhost
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1 x Farseer
8 x Stormguardians (2 powerswords, 2 fusion guns)
8 x Stormguardians (2 powerswords, 2 fusion guns)
8 x Stormguardians (2 powerswords, 2 fusion guns)
3 x Shadoweavers (vauls battery) + WARLOCK
1 x Vyper squadron (1 x cannon, 1 scatterlaser)
1 x Warwalker (scatterlasers)

Windrider host
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1 x Farseer on bike
1 x Vyper squadron (1 x cannon, 1 scatterlaser)
1 x Warlock conclave bike
3 x Scatterbikes
3 x Scatterbikes
3 x Scatterbikes

Aspect host (+1BS)
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Dire avenger squad (with 3 shots once per game)
Dire avenger squad (with 3 shots once per game)
Dire avenger squad (with 3 shots once per game)

The goal in life is Battlefocus to your advantage. Let them assault your units. Screen units behind so only 1 unit can be assaulted at a time, let it die then shoot the enemy unit to death.

Overwhelming firepower. With this list, but not counting the farseers or the psychic power or the arty platforms, = 207 shots RENDING!

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 05:40:42 AM by mcphro »

Online Chmmr_X

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 12:36:05 AM »
Hey Mcphro

Thanks for your feedback. As effective as your list may be against GSC, it will not work against other lists though (especially with Imperial Knights and the likes) as my objective was to have a list that can take on all lists. Basically a well balanced list.

In the game I played, I did the bubble wrap with my Guardians as well. But since they are... well... Guardians... they died to autopistols (and lots of it) quite fast. All 3 units of it died immediately, opening the door for their close combat elements to charge the Wraithlords behind. Cannot rely on terrain as there wasn't really much to begin with. So far the only thing I can think of that i can do differently is to have my War Walkers and Warp Spiders deployed instead of being held in reserve. The fact that they can make an immediate shot upon deployment (since some rolled a 5) and shoot again in their first turn is really devastating to my wimpy Guardians.

I may consider playing Night Spinners and see how that pan out. But as for now, to build a balanced list is really tough.

Online mcphro

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2016, 03:26:37 PM »
Does the pain from them come from the autoguns or the assault mainly. Perhaps units like scorpions?

Online Chmmr_X

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 08:12:52 PM »
The pain comes first from the autoguns then the assault. The Eldar infantry are only Str 3 in the end with 5+ armour saves. With that many shots, even with 4+ cover saves, they go down

So once the meat shields are gone, they are able to assault. The 1st turn I lost all my Guardian infantry and 1 Wraithlord just like that. So by turn 2, there's no more meat shields for their assault elements to go through. And in my 1st turn, the flamers did take out a lot but still sadly not enough at all.

Online mcphro

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2016, 01:14:30 AM »
Dont they have to roll for assault like a '6', or can they assault automatically once they appear?

Online Chmmr_X

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2016, 03:02:51 AM »
Dont they have to roll for assault like a '6', or can they assault automatically once they appear?

Yes they do. Those that can assault assaulted. Those that cannot, shoots to the max to allow those that can assault to assault the hard stuff. Those that rolled a 5, shoot once during deployment and shoots again during shooting phase.

Online mcphro

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2016, 02:20:22 PM »
Yep, sounds like you need vehicles. 3 wave serpents with Dire avengers, Night spinners etc.

Then they have to rely on vehicle popping power and those units become your targets. Sounds like infantry armies dont fair well for GSC.

A mix of high toughness and vehicle units.

Id say units like Falcons in lists are versitile units that can pump out 7 Str 6 shots plus deliver Str 8 with the pulse lasers could be an answer to GSC. As long as you dont get assaulted, then you can blow up his transports with pulse lasers and mow him down with your other weapons. They also keep your msu safer.

Maybe... hmmm

Eldar 1850
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Aspect host
3 x Fire dragon units with flamers for exarchs
3 x Fire dragon units with flamers for exarchs with 3 WAVE SERPENTS with MISSILE LAUNCHERS

CAD
HQ
----
1 Autarch with fusion gun (rides in falcon)

Troops
-------
2 x 3 man windrider units

Heavy support
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1 cloudstrike Falcon formation
3 x falcons (holds 3 of the fire dragon units)


Notes:
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Since you wanted an alcomers list, this list gives you options.
- Plenty of anti tank vs the player that wants to vehicle up themselves
- You can go all in cloudstrike formation with melta frim fire dragons
- all infantry is protected ie in vehicles
- Anti Air in the form of the 3 wave serpents with missile launchers
- Anti-cover (wave serpents)
- 3 shot Dire avengers when you need some anti-infantry and scoring
- 2+ reserve rolls from the Autarch

Notes:
- thats 1692 points with roughly 150 points to add more units with.
- Sounds silly but you could add 3 x viper squadrons with 1 viper in each with a missle launcher in each. Thats gives you 6 missile launchers in the army you can deal a lot more anti air, and still have anti tank long range. Sure they are vulnerable, but still versatile and quick.
- This list gives you some breathing room to use cloudstrike formation to "react" to his deployments or send in your own assault.
- the wave serpents gives you protection so you cant be tabled
- can anyone say "melta" - you out melta sisters of battle!

- Between the missile launchers, Pulse lasers you can choose to sit back if Range is what you need vs some armies, or if they come close to you, you have a lot of vs infantry firepower in those vehicles AND IGNORE COVER when you need it, AND 6 flamer templates as well.


anyway, hows this list?



Online FartherSeer15

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2016, 11:18:08 PM »
That list above is almost exactly what i have run for a solid year now and i absolutely love how it plays.

I run

Autarch: wings, fusion gun, relic wings

2x3 scat bikes

and 2 different varients (A and B lists)

either 3x10 DA from a dire avenger shrine in 3 serpents with eml's or scatter lasers, ghost walks, and cannon
or 2x10 guardians in 2 serpents as above with a full squadron of night spinners with Crystal targeting matrix

then 3 falcons with bright lances. they carry my aspect host of 3x5 fire dragons (exarchs have flamers)


the list is very very brutal.

Offline Rob40k

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2016, 12:53:13 PM »
I've started a GSC army, so I found that I took away a lot of the surprise element of my opponents list, when using the Cult, I've found many people simply don't know what it does. Knowledge is power.

Simply deploying/reserving is not going to work, you have to know what you're playing and how it will act of the field.

When I played vs the Cult, I found that sacrificing a few units to the cult during deployment worked out well, these formed a wall around the bulk of my forces. But, with enough of a gap, so that it was a long charge to get the unit(s) behind, as the cult can shoot during deployment.

I was running 2 Wraithknights (as I always do), so they were in the front line, I had one with Sun Cannon and another with double Wraithcannons (as I do), the Sun Cannons Invulnerable save was invaluable, backed up by Fortune it was a thorn in my opponents side all game, being able to tank a hit and then stomp on the unit that charged, leaving it free to charge another unit. Stomps did a lot of damage, being able to hit a unit, then "walk" the stomps into another.

Units supporting each other was super useful, but, don't get too close, as Multicharges become a thing. But, keeping within 6" so units cannot disappear was a way of chipping away.

Eventually the Cult runs out of steam.


Online Chmmr_X

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2016, 09:13:04 PM »
I've started a GSC army, so I found that I took away a lot of the surprise element of my opponents list, when using the Cult, I've found many people simply don't know what it does. Knowledge is power.

Simply deploying/reserving is not going to work, you have to know what you're playing and how it will act of the field.

When I played vs the Cult, I found that sacrificing a few units to the cult during deployment worked out well, these formed a wall around the bulk of my forces. But, with enough of a gap, so that it was a long charge to get the unit(s) behind, as the cult can shoot during deployment.

I was running 2 Wraithknights (as I always do), so they were in the front line, I had one with Sun Cannon and another with double Wraithcannons (as I do), the Sun Cannons Invulnerable save was invaluable, backed up by Fortune it was a thorn in my opponents side all game, being able to tank a hit and then stomp on the unit that charged, leaving it free to charge another unit. Stomps did a lot of damage, being able to hit a unit, then "walk" the stomps into another.

Units supporting each other was super useful, but, don't get too close, as Multicharges become a thing. But, keeping within 6" so units cannot disappear was a way of chipping away.

Eventually the Cult runs out of steam.

Seems interesting. In my game, it was quite impossible to have enough space to put my guys behind the front line because of the 12" from table edge deployment zone. But like you said, I have a massive disadvantage that I not too sure how much GSC can do. Probably one mistake was that I reserved certain things and probably not reserving would have been better.

But I believe a scatbike army would be certain death against a GSC army right?

Offline Rob40k

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2016, 01:27:33 AM »
You need all the fire power you can, if they're using the super formation then you're at -1 reserves, so deploying on the table is a must in my eyes.

The game is about minimising the chances of there units getting into combat with the units that will win you the game.

Units that are good against the GSC aren't good in the meta.

I'd argue that Banshees, Scorpions, Avatar, and Shining Spears are all good options to take vs GSC

Banshees/Scoprions are good as they;re better I and have lots of attacks

Avatar holds the army together with that Fearless bubble and can wipe units out on his own

Shining Spears are the rapid response units that plug the battle line

Shame these all suck/struggle against most other armies


Offline Rob40k

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2016, 01:40:17 AM »
An example of my deployment:

https://twitter.com/RobEdwards40k/status/796447501947650048

I deployed in a slanted line starting 12" out and towards my table edge, sacrificing 2 units of Warp Spiders and the Vyper, with the Wraithknights outfront.

I bated a gap to a unit of Warp Spiders behind, it would have been a 7" charge, plus i'd get another unit to overwatch with, potentially making the charge longer, he didn't go for it.

My opponent rolled a number of 6's so I was glad to do this.

After the initial charge killed the front line, I was able to fan out and take control of the board with the Windriders and Warp Spiders.

Offline amras_falassion

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2016, 08:09:07 AM »
Thanks for sharing your experience.

Offline bg1080Eldar

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Re: Eldar Against the new GSC
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2017, 10:40:54 AM »
you're going to need to use the Falcon deep strike drop its a must in against any list