Author Topic: working with the Angel's Blade  (Read 1068 times)

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Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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working with the Angel's Blade
« on: December 22, 2016, 08:56:18 AM »
Jump infantry has always been a huge, and I do mean HUGE, part of the Blood Angels. it was a Massive blow that we didn't get the codex space marine vanguard vets. So why play the Archangels demi company with a support choice? Simple. It fits out play style.

Lets begin with what we must take (disclaimer: 1500 to 2000 points is the best way to get this formation detachment on the table). A terminator captain (135 pts) he has a Thunder-Hammer, storm bolter combo, and 2 furioso dreadnaughts (kitted out as you see fit). You can go ahead and put the dreadnaughts in drop pods. or run them say along side a razorback, your choice. what to do about that captain...more on that later. Now to what we may take, any combination of 5 units of terminators, assault termi's, Vanguard, and/or sternguard. lets put our captain in a stock termi squad, either version should work based on your playstyle. Now what about the other 4? well lets go with 2 full 10 man squads of Vanguard (stock loadout) 1 (5 man) squad with power weapons and Storm shields, and lets put a sternguard squad with a heavy bolter turret razorback in the mix for some more shooty support. so that is our core choice. So what does this do for the BA? we get to roll reserves turn 1, reroll failed reserves, AND roll 1 less die for scatter. we make our presence known on turn 1 and then we can benefit from our command benefits on the turn they need to be there.

So lets take a look at the command benefits. We've got the typical reroll on Warlord Traits for the BA codex, The Red Thirst +1 initiative when charging, and zealot once a unit has lost half of its starting number. A lot of people don't like this trait due to it's reliance of loosing models. But there is another way to look at it. All players should know they will loose models. 40k is a wargame, guys WILL BE LOST. Do we like it? Maybe not, but it WILL happen. This trait will make any unit in this detachment be feared. It's about making the opponent choose whether or not to hurt a squad or devote an abnormal amount of firepower to completely wipe a squad (we'll talk more about threat presence in a moment). the thing is to force your opponent to make a choice, to hurt or attempt to kill.

For aux choices I like assault squads (with jump packs now). either on the table OR in a drop pod they can take 4 flamers if you count hand flamers, or 4 meltas if you count inferno pistols, or 4 plasmas if you count plasma pistols. You could even add in an eviscerator and you have a prominent threat at short range.

Lets talk about threat presence depending on what you've taken as your demi-company choices, you can pressure your opponent's back line or run a mobile siege of heavy bolter/assault cannon/[las/plas] (remember our razorback's are fast)/heavy flamer barrage. then your Elite Assault marines drop from the skies. your opponent now asks the questions, or better yet for us knee-jerks, what to shoot at. we hope they choose our main force, allowing our razorbacks/dreads (if placed on foot) to close the distance and catch the opponent by surprise when we assault in turn 2. KAELRICH! you may yell, THEY'RE SITTING DUCKS! Why would you consign your vanguard squads to death!? Because they won't die. They will have help to increase their threat presence. We have 5 HQ choices to play with, which can be Sanguinary Priests (with jump packs). I have won more games on FNP with BA because we Refuse to Leave the field. I prefer to have 4 priests, one without a jump pack with the sternguard squad, 3 with jump packs at with the vanguard vets. so now we have more survivability for our descending angels and an easier choice for the opponent to try and take them out before they can charge (with +1 S,I, and WS).

So what do you think? are you willing to try it?


Online Sensenbob

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Re: working with the Angel's Blade
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2016, 02:33:56 PM »
as i am working on a 1500 and a 2500 pts list for next year atm, i put what you said into Battlescribe to have it condensed into a list and see if i liked it! (unfortunately i don't have as many jump infantry yet)
I came up with two main things to consider compared to your pattern - a more sternguard heavy approach or - the Death Company
#1: Sternguard
To me the main quirk of the Archangels-Core is the fact that they roll and reroll reserves from turn one, which i think should be abused for maximum effect. It enables us to basically play a Grey Knights playstyle but more reliable and with possibly better weapons - Null Deployment and everything deep striking turn one!
Whenever i tried to put together a list using Archangels i always ended up putting Sternguard with DropPods in there next to the lone Terminator squad for the captain because Sternguard can actually do something when they arrive from reserves - even delivering a devastating Alpha Strike with Combi-Weapons together with the Fruisosos. Only Downside - Sternguard with Pods are much more expensive than the Vanguards.
Seems more effective to me, on the other hand i also love Jump Infantry!

Does the Deep strike really help the Vanguards enormously compared to setting up on the Edge of your own deployment zone on turn one?

#2 DeathCompany
Basically you are running lots of JumpVeterans with FnP into the enemy. DeathCompany have FnP built in, 2 attacks base like vanguards and deliver a stronger charge than vanguards while also being fearless, their only downside in comparison is not getting Stormshields - even the unit cost is extremely similar due to the built in FnP. Instead of the Deep Strike deployment we'd have to put them on the board, but with 6'' redeploy from the DC detachment they can almost set up in the middle threateningly close to the enemy. Is it much of a difference? we even get to ditch the Terminator captain in favor of shiny DC-Chaplains :D Therefore if going for mass Jump Infantry, as of now I'd most likely choose DC

What do you think?
=Blood Angels=

Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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Re: working with the Angel's Blade
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2016, 05:45:05 PM »
I believe it really depends on points cost. While reading through the new core faq I realized that we won't be able to drop a sanguinary priest into our squads for the archangels if we deep strike them. So I'm thinking about something even less used now.

We do have access to fast transports, with free flamers. (Or if you would prefer the cost of a razorback with fast coupled with a h.flamer turret.) So what about running a 3 unit squad of dual h flamer land speeders? For 60 pts per speeder you have a fast 2 h flamer per unit squad that can cover ground and deal with infintry. While still covering our razorbacks which provide support for the sternguard?

As far as the DC option goes I say run them on the table, hope for first turn, and go all out. You can have a Chaplin in each of the core squad. Drop pod the DC dreadnaughts and watch your opponent squirm to keep them away. I actually prefer running the land raider formation with a squad of DC there. It's always fun to watch the hurricane bolters work out when used correctly.

Offline BossSauce

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Re: working with the Angel's Blade
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 07:10:14 PM »
Big problem with the list you described there is how are you gonna score maelstrom points without ruining an expensive assault units turn.
I'd prefer to lose the larger vanguard units and the small vanguard squad. Swap the 3 for 2 units of vanguard with either 3 power weapons or two weapons and a pistol. The third being another sternguard, I'm planning on doing 9 in a pod with a priest and the last dude ride in the razorback sternguard (no priest). I would recommend the termie squad being thunder hammer storm shield because here you're lacking monstrous creature killers, so toss a priest with a grav pistol with them and Concuss that mofo to charge. Drop 2 if the priests and add a 10th Company scout just for some cheap objective holders. Add some serious firepower to the list in the form of vindicators, whirlwinds, devs, or suicide assault marines. Should be golden with that.

Offline Warseer_Kaelrich

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Re: working with the Angel's Blade
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 12:13:16 PM »
The priest in a drop pod is fine. But remember that you won't be able to take the priest in the tremis squads according to the new faq. Because the priest isn't part of the main formation they can't join the unit because they don't have the same rollreserves on turn 1 for this unit. It sucks and we got hit hard by it.