Author Topic: How to use Thousand Sons?  (Read 2487 times)

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Offline Angelic

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How to use Thousand Sons?
« on: August 22, 2013, 05:44:36 AM »
Now i'm not really a Chaos player, but if I were going to play Chaos I would use Thousand Sons, they are my all time favourite Space Marine Chapter (Aside from Grey Knights :3), love the models, love the fluff (can't wait for Horus Heresy to make a Magnus model @_@), LOVE IT ALL! BUT how do I run them? A themed list wouldn't be so hard, something like Ahriman/Sorcerer, 2-4 Squads of Thousand Sons in Rhinos (or without), ally in Daemons of Tzeentch or some Heavy Artillery Guardsmen. Something like that?

But outside that NO ONE, uses them, I get they are pricy for AP 3 Bolters, a 4++ and VotLW but there HAS to be some way to make them attractive as a choice.. It seems as though all the other gods get the love when it comes to Chaos Space Marines. Wish there was something like the Iyanden Supp. which let me run 6 Sorcs in a single HQ. THEN I could have some fun, especially with the Blue Scribes!

So, first, how can I use Thousand Sons in a themed list? Not in a themed list? In general? Second, what do you think the best Allies are? There are Daemons or Guard as far as I can see and I know a list with Namely Thousand Sons would be lacking in Anti-Tank, so the Guard seem attractive, but i'm really not sure.

Would love some more experienced opinions!

Angel
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Offline Fagerlund

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Re: How to use Thousand Sons?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 08:09:27 AM »
Well, the main problem is really that they're not very versatile at all. They're great against Space Marines with them AP3-bolters... but the moment you face a horde or tanks, or fliers you're just a Marine with a normal Bolter...

Against them Power armour-enemies they're nice though, especially with Ahriman. With him you infiltrate 1-3 units. Add Ahriman himself to the mix, and you got yourself some Rapid Fire AP3 Bolters and a bunch of witchfires going off turn 1. Potentially very devastating.

So when looking at allies you should try to fix that variety part. Personally I would go Daemons, as Tzeentch Daemons are still good. For one thing, you get access to Prescience. Screamers are still solid, especially if prescienced. Throw the Grimoire of True Names at them as well and you have a amazing tar-pit unit. Flamers got the nerf-stick, but a unit of three is really cheap and really fast. Three flamers pretty much wherever you want them every turn is certainly useful. And then there's the Daemon Princes who are the most survivable of all the Daemon Princes, plus they cast psychic powers on Ld10 instead of 9. Good stuff. And coincidently this kind of covers the weaknesses of the Thousand Sons... the question though, is if it's not better to run Tzeentch Daemons with Thousand Sons allies instead (all though then the Rubricae would be Elites instead of Troops...)...
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Offline Angelic

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Re: How to use Thousand Sons?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 09:22:33 AM »
Hmm that is most certainly true.. I think i'd rather the flexibility in the Chaos Space Marine Codex, I mean instead of Chaos Space Marines you end up with Thousand Sons filling your troops, BUT with a cheap Sorcerer, heck maybe even a Warpsmith (if running 2 HQs) taking a unit of Horrors with a Herald  and a Daemon Prince would be interesting.. I suppose running them in Elites wouldn't be so bad if it let me take more than just 1 unit.

I can see how that Bolter isn't worth much against anything with a 5+ save, but you're still getting the armour ignoring, I suppose at that stage you thank Tzeentch for the 4++ but call it a day anyway. I never liked how Thousands Sons got treated!

More ideas, more knowledge that is what I need!! I will scour the black libra-.. Internet!

Angel
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Offline Breng77

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Re: How to use Thousand Sons?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 11:58:20 AM »
The issue with Thousand sons is that as mentioned they excel against a very narrow field and they are pricey.

Thousand sons bolters are better against Armor 3+ and 4+.   If those units are in cover you start to lose your advantage.  Point for point against models in cover Thousand sons are only better against a model with a 3+ save.  Throw in special weapons for the CSM and they gain  larger advantage.

You have a 4++ save.  This is great.  If you get shot by AP3 or better, and you are not getting a cover save.  When you get shot by a bolter you are less durable because you cost 10 points more per model.  IF the other CSM have cover they are more durable again because they are cheaper.

You must buy a sorcerer...for 35 extra points (vs 10 for the regular champion), he has a force weapon which is nice, but can only roll on the Tzeentch table, which is the worst psychic tree in the book.  If he could roll on Biomancy, or Telepathy, I think this unit would have more promise.

Lastly they lack good delivery, you can put them in a Rhino...meh it is ok.

SO I think if you are going to run them you will want either Ahriman, or Huron, to give the units infiltrate, this will allow them to outlfank and target back field units.
I might go with

Ahriman (1ksons are expensive so might as well be troops)
2 x 10 1ksons
2 x 10 CSm with Autocannon
2 x Bale flamer Heldrake
3x 1 Obliterator
10 Cultists

Herald of Tzeentch (mastery level 3, Locus of +1 S shooting, Exalted Reward)

20 Horrors

Offline Angelic

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Re: How to use Thousand Sons?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 09:43:44 PM »
I was looking at similar lists just yesterday and it looks like the best direction to go. Probably want to use them to screw over Heavy Weapons units in the open or any other squad holding backfield objectives. If they do have a worse save than 4+ then I can just shoot and charge them (because of SnP) generally, unless it's against Orks, Guard Blob, Guardians etc etc. wouldn't be able to do much and the Sorc is there for the challenge.

Unfortunately the draw backs are REALLY prominent, this is fine for me because I see a lot of 3+, 4+ armour saves at my local store. If you do infiltrate can you infiltrate in a Rhino or outflank with it?

Either way their drawbacks are unfortunate, but I really want to find some combos where these guys can shine.

Angel
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Offline Col. Dracus

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Re: How to use Thousand Sons?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 04:58:42 PM »
I would have to agree in that if you want to use 1kSons they need to fill a role not done by the rest of your army. Taking Oblitz or Auto/Las Predators will help open up enemy transports while Heldrakes will help with hordes. Take a Tzeentch Daemon Prince and Terminators if you want some Close Combat units and leave the 1kSons to score the objectives and bolter drill marines.

It can be done, but you can't put to many points into the 1kSons themselves.
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Offline Angelic

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Re: How to use Thousand Sons?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2013, 12:32:18 AM »
It definitely is a matter of filling in gaps around them because they cost so much. They're GREAT objective holders in terms of being tough to remove and be scary enough to not want to approach. That's why I think allying in Tzeentch daemons is such a good idea, you get REALLY cheap Psychic Support in the form of Heralds, cheap shooty troops with Horrors and ways to deal with Heavy Infantry/Anti-Tank with Screamers/Flamers.

Also whilst reading Battle of the Fang it seems the existence of Rubric Terminators is a thing, so running a squad of them with a Sorc/Lord seems like an awesome idea, plus a great opportunity for conversion!

By now I think i've got the concept down, they're never really going to be AWESOME because of their points cost (although the Book of Tzeentch Supp. is looming!). Basically they're like Ahriman, awesome if you use them effectively, but otherwise a complete and total waste of points.

Angel
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Offline FalleN

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Re: How to use Thousand Sons?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2013, 09:09:44 AM »
I really wish they could get special or heavy weapons to really take advantage of the slow and purposeful. If they make a supplement for them i hope it gives access to Thousand Sons Havocs of away to give slow and purposeful on the Havocs. I would of much rather that than the Invuln save for non characters.
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Re: How to use Thousand Sons?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 04:48:13 AM »
I'd honestly run them in squads of 9 (Tzeentch's number) inside rhinos. Ahriman and a squad of Terminators in a Land Raider. Maybe a Daemon Prince of Tzeench with power armor and wings. 1 or 2 Helldrakes. 1 or 2 defilers with Warpflame Gargoyles.
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Offline Angelic

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Re: How to use Thousand Sons?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 08:21:23 AM »
I agree that's a good way to do it if you're running pure Chaos Space Marines. Allying in some Chaos Daemons for some more Flying Monstrous Creature Psykerage is awesome because you also get Divination (and Change is a way better Discipline than Tzeentch).

I have been looking in to this for a while and have decided to wait for a Thousand Sons Supp. or the "Book of Tzeentch" that are rumoured to be coming soon.
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