Author Topic: The new 8th Ed. BA Units  (Read 1812 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Sensenbob

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 176
  • WHERE IS THE DEAFF COMPANYYY!?!?! :D
    • View Profile
The new 8th Ed. BA Units
« on: June 17, 2017, 03:46:44 PM »
Hi Guys! So, which 8th Ed. Units for BloodAngels are you excited about? Why?
How do you plan to use them ?
Have you tested any of them yet?
What do you not like?

Personally i'm most excited about:
  • Sanguinary Guard with Warlord/Priest support being more durable, Str.5 and getting rerolls ;D
  • Librarians Sanguine Shield to make units more durable
  • Stormraven Gunships being able to start on the Table and not killing everything they transport if they go down
  • Lemartes Rerolling Charges for DC
  • Heavy Flamer Devastators inside Twin Heavy Flamer Razorbacks  :o
  • Baal Predators?

Im Doubtful about the usefulness of Vindicators now
and unsure about how to run the Dreadnoughts.... probably alwys inside a Stormraven.
Generally losing some specials like faster Vehicles, general Furious/better Charge and no more Meltaguns for AssaultSquads kind of sucks.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 03:49:35 PM by Sensenbob »
=Blood Angels=

Online SharkoutofWata

  • Chapter Master
  • *
  • Posts: 726
    • View Profile
Re: The new 8th Ed. BA Units
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2017, 09:45:16 PM »
Lemartes is a pretty quick include for me and will likely be my next model bought, followed closely by another Baal Predator so I could get the triple flames.  I severely underestimated that, and after trying out my dakka Baal, it needs to go.  -1 to hit after moving is a MASSIVE difference from firing two guns at full Ballistic Skill, and that difference is ridiculously important.

Sanguinary Guard have been dropped from my list hard.  They're a huge amount of points for what amounts to minimal upgrades over Vanguard Veterans.  I'd rather have a 3+ Invul instead of flat 2+ Armor that is made into that 3+ more often than not. 

Melta Squads is an easy fix.  Company Veterans get Jump Pack options, and that's as many Specials as you like in as small of units as you like.  Sergeant with Combi, two models with Melta is a squad right there.  Pod em if you have to, but Jump Packs drop them 9" away and something should die from that.

I love walking a Death Company Dread up though, threatening a huge section of the table while my actual Death Company sandwich a target in there.  And Dante impresses me every time.  He's surrounded by a Priest and some Company Veterans now though, not Sanguinary Guard.  I may need more Veterans as I go bigger but so far in 2k I just know I need more tanks with fire.

Online Sensenbob

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 176
  • WHERE IS THE DEAFF COMPANYYY!?!?! :D
    • View Profile
Re: The new 8th Ed. BA Units
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2017, 05:30:27 AM »
Good stuff about the melta-squads, i'm kind of overlooking the regular Marine-options.
No need for a Drop Pod anymore since JPs are just as accurate now, can come down anytime they want and have better mobility if they ever survive.
  • Do you run them in 3 Man squads, add bodies or even more meltas? I regularly missed 2/3 shots in 7th with those guys! :D

It's true, the Sanguinary Guard are super expensive now, i like them getting rerolls from just being near the warlord, so only a Priest to support them can be enough.
They might still be nice in a list that focuses on multi-wound models/tanks/dreads to overload the heavy weapons.
I'll have to get used to CC-Dreads actually Footslogging it :D

Other than that, i'll probably usually focus on Death Company for jump Assault purposes, just because of Lemartes rerolling charges and me actually having a painted Lemartes ready to go.
  • What's your general take on Anti-Tank/Monster weapons? I'm still unsure what to use.
    Lascannon Devs or Preds are my go-to. Just deepstriking melta? I like the Stormraven's capabilities but it's costly.
  • How do you like the BA special pistols? I can't justify using them yet, they seem overpriced for their range which prohibits any alpha strike! Handflamer seems very weak for the price of a plasma pistol, holy cow.
  • How much importance would you place on the Sanguinary Priest's +1 Str aura? It looks important to me.



=Blood Angels=

Offline Kvekan

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: The new 8th Ed. BA Units
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2017, 03:44:53 AM »
Sanguinary guards look really good to me now, especially with plasma pistols. I'm gonna take 5 with plasma pistols and 5 with angelus and Sanguinor as warlord dropping near them together with an ancient. The heirs of azkaellon is a great rule, 2 wounds make them much more durable and the best of all, their weapons do d3 wounds each, that is huge.

I think they will be a killer unit. I'm also thinking preds with the new auto cannon will be sweet doing 3 wounds a pop. The vindicator will probably perform a lot better than it did before as well, considering I usually got 1 shot off per game before being shaken or destroyed.

Dante is really lackluster in my view. He has no special rules appart from the generic chapter master rule. Compare him to Azrael of the dark angels and he looks even worse.

Edit: I'm thinking the +1 strength aura is awesome for now, until we know what kind of chapter rules we get in the codex. the difference between str 4 and 5 is huge, 5 and 6 not so much.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 03:52:08 AM by Kvekan »
"For those we cherish, we die in glory" ...And we die a lot.

Online SharkoutofWata

  • Chapter Master
  • *
  • Posts: 726
    • View Profile
Re: The new 8th Ed. BA Units
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2017, 04:47:48 AM »
I could not disagree any harder.  Without an Invul, models die so fast that it's not often worth the effort and there's better units point for point that I want to spend my CP reroll on from a Deep Strike charge.  Any competent player will screen good units with bad ones, making a significant learning curve but when they do it right and fallback or die in Blood Angel's turn, the Sanguinary Guard evaporate.  The risk and reward from an Assault kill is pretty unforgiving for both players and I'm sure the meta will settle with the winner being cheap units that can be sacrificed after their strike without costing you an arm and a leg.  We got that market cornered with Death Company.

Vindicators are not what they should be.  They are a failure.  4+ to hit with D3 shots after moving, D6 only if the unit is 5+ models.  I've seen them act as midfield control but they are hard countered by a single Land Raider or similar unit.  Even three of them is scary for about a single turn, then they're outpositioned or outranged.  If they could shoot at full BS after moving or if they stayed at D6 shots always, they'd be very very good units, but as they stand, they're little more than gun emplacements and targets.  I've fought against them twice now and been on the table next to them three times and each time they have been abysmal.  With the faulty BS they're not real squad killers and with the low amount of shots they're not Vehicle/Monster killers.  They just missed the mark by a smidge but it shows HARD.

You shouldn't compare Dante to Azrael.  Dante is 100% a beatstick while Azrael is a buff character.  Comparing a sword to a screwdriver.  Yes you can poke people with both and yes you can turn a screw with both, but they are made for their roles.  Dante just makes the murder and does it very very well.  I want to try out the Sanguinor in a list though to see how they compare.  I'm seeing some good possibilities from that model, and for cheaper.  I actually expect him to be more viable than Dante because of the price.

I haven't actually tried out the pistols for the same reason though.  Points.  I have a hard time bothering with pistols in general when there's no penalty to Bolters and combat rarely lasts till my next turn.  When it does, I'd rather fall back and pop the now freed up unit with something really meaty, like a Land Raider or Baal Predator.  If something has survived my many many attacks for most Blood Angel units I field, I need a D6 weapon to come finish the job.  I've noticed my army almost entirely consists of CCWs or full bodied Special/Heavy Weapons.

Priest is an autoinclude.  Even just bumping one unit to S5 means wounding on 3s.  And the Narthecium rules are GOOD.  Terminators, Sanguinary Guard, Characters, they all benefit so much from having that ability to heal every turn.  Even in a different style list, Devestator squads of 8~ with a Priest hanging out next to them means four ablative wounds that keep coming back.  That's no laughing matter right there.  There is almost always a reason to take a Priest in whatever sort of list you're building somewhere in there.


Online Sensenbob

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 176
  • WHERE IS THE DEAFF COMPANYYY!?!?! :D
    • View Profile
Re: The new 8th Ed. BA Units
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 12:31:42 PM »
So i finally got around to playing my first 8th edition game and took the chance to take quite a variety of units for testing. 2000pts of BA vs. Necrons.

First of all... Plasmacannon-Devastators were an absolute menace, good amount of high strength shots and good vs. anything. Especially since the new AP-system also works against cover, those were really nice. Necrons are a prime target for plasma anyway.
Lascannons will have to be judged in a game where nobody has Quantum Shielding but i guess they're OK :D

Up next, i took a Vindicator and generally shot at heavy infantry(Immortals) to get D6 shots. It killed 1-2 per shot. Again the new AP-system helps strip away cover bonus, which is nice but the vindicator felt really lackluster, it was consequently ignored by my opponent, maybe that's good but it sure doesn't feel strong. The problem is that whoever is a good target (multiwound & 5+ models) probably also has an Invul. save.

Scouts with Shotguns aren't BloodAngels exclusive but they are really cool! Nice AlphaStrike and Infiltration can have them within 3'' of the enemy after moving for an easy 1st turn charge. Here i could even justify an InfernoPistol on the Sergeant - better get first turn tho :) .

I also tried out the Sanguinary Guard w/ Warlord Priest, they hit really hard, get rerolls, especially with the 1d3 dmg weapons. On the other hand they still went down in one single round after wrecking the Lychguard. I guess they are once again a very specialized unit which is rarely more useful than cheaper ones like DeathCompany whose Dmg output is comparable. I still don't get why the -1AP bolters are more expensive than PlasmaPistols :O, so i'd probably switch to those if i even field them.

Last special one was Mephiston. As you can imagine, he's a beast in combat. He wrecked half a Monolith and 3 Wraiths personally, then killed himself in style by overcharging his plasmapistol :D . More importantly our psychic powers come in very handy when buffing a unit for a crucial attack or to hold out for a little while longer with the 4++. And you can alwys use some MortalWounds to counter Invulnerable saves! Mephiston benefits a lot from being able to charge out of any Vehicle and he is quite survivable on his own if you can spare a command point for his save.



« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 05:02:56 PM by Sensenbob »
=Blood Angels=

Offline Kvekan

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: The new 8th Ed. BA Units
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2017, 03:56:33 PM »
After playing almost a dozen games I've come to the following conclusions:

Sanguinary guards with warlord sanguinor are good, but they really need that 1 extra attack to be viable, as well as the to hit rerolls. And they most definitely need to pick their targets with care.

"Deep striking" is still a tool to be handled with caution. I had way more success with my jump troops starting them on the table.

The vindicator is indeed bad (I was way off on that one), the only thing it's good for is killing vehicles and monsters and a predator does that better. The auto cannon las cannon pred however has been my MVP almost every game.

Tacticals are even less tactical. Losing the extra attack on the charge and str 5 (for now) means they're only really good for shooting, and they never were very good at that in the first place. Flamers are also really not what they used to be...

Bikes are still a great unit even though they're more expensive.

Priests are great both for healing and strength.

Close combat scouts went from a unit that could be really hit or miss to being just very.. meh. Once again the lack of dice volume kills their effectiveness. All 1 attack base units are super gimped in assaults, chain sword or no.

Psykers are really dangerous...

All in all this edition still shows all signs of shooting still being king. Morale very rarely comes into effect, while before I swept people right and left. I'm tempted to try more death company units but they don't really fit thematically with my Lamenters, but for now even in my assault army the shooting does the heavy lifting which I hate.
"For those we cherish, we die in glory" ...And we die a lot.

Offline Remtek

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: The new 8th Ed. BA Units
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2017, 05:50:34 AM »
I agree. BA shooting lists are doing much better for me. It's very hard to keep assault units safe with the new fallback mechanic, and shooty jump infantry are still effective and locking down other units in assault so they can shoot (tanks etc.)

Assault is working very well for low point models, boyz, pox walkers etc. I'm sure they will fix this within a year or so. There are a ton of fun and strong builds now though, a big step up from 7th. Overall they did a great job, it's just very difficult to balance assault for expensive models.