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Messages - mcphro

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1
Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar 8th Tips and tricks
« on: November 19, 2017, 06:03:45 AM »
I should of seen that.  Newb error

2
Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar 8th Tips and tricks
« on: November 19, 2017, 03:11:56 AM »
"cry"

3
Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar 8th Tips and tricks
« on: November 18, 2017, 11:21:42 PM »
It cn be done using the cloudstrike ability. It just means you cant deep strike the infantry unit. But thats ok since you can still used rangers for it

4
Discussion: Eldar / Re: 2000 pts Alaitoc Brigade
« on: November 18, 2017, 08:59:02 PM »
I really like this list and is something I am more likely to use.

I think the dark reaper/ Fire prims combos are making it into a LOT of Eldar lists too. They are just really good long range firepower.

5
Discussion: Eldar / Eldar 8th Tips and tricks
« on: November 18, 2017, 08:56:38 PM »
As you come up with first little ideas and tricks.. put them here for debate and sharing.

Idea: Own the center!
Army: Aliotoc
Notes: So it seems you can use celestial shield on guardian units (ok we know that). But what if you put a 1-2 ranger units wrapped in a circle ready for 2 deep striking units.

Unit 1:
A 20 man storm guardian squad  on the outside of the ranger bubble. They are there to stop things getting through. With celestial shield in cover(all of this is in cover), they will be resistant and force the opponent to use a lot of firepower to remove them. Why would the opponent care at this stage about them at all?

Unit 2: 3 x Dcannon Support weapons Deep strike into the center of the rangers. Now you have a unit that really cannot be ignored, will be -1 to hit, (add spirit seer within 18" to give conceal and another for Protect), and if they focus on your support weapons, you can celestial shield them as well being guardians (so I understand... or do i now need to apologize?)
Effect: A support weapon battery free now to put out 3 x D3 shots of Str 12 -4 D6 goodnees, in the center of the board, wrapped in rangers with -2 to hit wrapped in Storm guardians with -1 to hit, 4++ celestial shield (depending on their target of course).

Basically its a big distraction carnifex that if the opponent had charging land raiders etc, now has to take these guys into account. Normally support weapons only threaten the charging army who comes to get you, but this way, you can threaten the army that wants to stay back like imperial guard.

How much firepower to remove this blob (that can do things like choose to run and charge closing units to tie them up), resilient to firepower due to hard to being hit being aliotoc with celestial shield goodnees.

The guns only have to kill 220 points to make their points back. And, for opposing units like baneblades, they wont see this coming and the opposing player had better hope you cant DS within 24" of one.

In addition, I would buy a Hemlock fighter as well for the 2 more auto hit Heavy D-Sythes that add to this party as well.

6
Discussion: Eldar / Re: Ynnari Strategies Post Nerf
« on: November 17, 2017, 04:20:53 PM »
so let me get this right. Since you can only do (1) of the 4 strength from death powers. You are better taking a patrol detachment with Yvaine , cheap troop and wraithguard, run them up in a wave serpent. Hop out, and you get to shoot normally first once, kill a unit, use strength from death again, to shoot again. Then pretty much thats it a turn. As long as its a wrathguard type unit thats probably still ok, but you just cant do it army wide anymore.

am i correct?

7
Discussion: Eldar / Re: NEW FAQ & YNNARI NERF
« on: November 16, 2017, 06:14:59 PM »
Wow ynarri just got nerfed bigtime!

8
My next list ... Biel Tan Brigade

HQ
---
Asurman
Avatar
Farseer Skyrunner

Troops
--------
5 x Dire avengers inc exarch with twin Shur catapults
5 x Dire avengers inc exarch with twin Shur catapults
5 x Dire avengers inc exarch with twin Shur catapults
5 x Dire avengers inc exarch with twin Shur catapults
5 x Dire avengers inc exarch with twin Shur catapults
17 x Storm Guardians (acts as a screen) - I DO wish I had a Spiritseer in this list

Elites
-------
7 x howling banshees inc exarch with executioner
7 x howling banshees inc exarch with executioner
7 x howling banshees inc exarch with executioner

Fast Attack
-------------
5 x swooping hawks inc exarch with sun rifle (to put pressure on screens)
5 x swooping hawks inc exarch with sun rifle
3 x Vypers in a squadron with 2 shuriken cannons

Heavy Support
-----------------
1 x Wraithlord with twin shuriken Cannons and 2 shuriken catapults
1 x Wraithlord with twin shuriken Cannons and 2 shuriken catapults
1 x Wraithlord with twin shuriken Cannons and 2 shuriken catapults

Options
---------
Reduce banshee squads to minimum and maybe a vyper to take:

1. Either another wraithlord OR
2. Remove 1 more storm guardian and a wraithlord with no cannons for A patrol detachment and an Auxillery support detachment with:

HQ
----
Spiritseer
SpiritSeer

Troops
--------
5 x rangers (just to increase the range their deep strikers have to take to get to me and to put some pressure on characters)

Auxillery Support Detachment (-1 CP)

HQ
-----
SpiritSeer

Explanation:

- This gives: From the farseer fortune (for a reason) and Doom
- Spiritseer: Quicken
- SpiritSeer: Protect
- SpiritSeer: Conceal

The idea is to screen the bulk of the force with the rangers/ 16 storm guardians in a line. Cast Protect, conceal and Fortune on them. The effect on this screen is quite dramatic and they become very resilient. (Even if they get first turn, cast this on other units etc).

You can also cast: Reveal for no cover bonus, Jinx so they get -1 armour, and Restrian if you have that land raider or Khorne Beserker unit chargng you etc. Ans you can still fortune them.

You also get 3 full smites (ok i get it.. no warlocks lol)

-1 to hit, +1 armour, 5+ FNP. so if they are locked in combat, or whatever they will be a pain. They are simply to screen the main line from the bad guys. Ive been watching Frontline gaming videos and no matter what army reciuss takes, he always has a screen and its always engaged and does some work. That leaves my whole army to advance and use the howling banshees, swooping hawks and vypers to place pressure on a flank or specific direction while I haved 3 T8 creatures and the avatar all advancing together as a group to place pressure as well.

Finally you have Asurman and the dire avengers with an army 4++ invun and if advanced correctly, then the banshess while in range also have a 5++ save as well. Of course then the main trick is reroll all 1's for all shuriken weapons in the army rending.

The only trick is to coordinate all that with Doom for nasties, movement and firepower to focus units down one at a time.

MC Strategy.
- Avatar center with a spiritseer every 60 degrees and the farseer.
- Wraithlords then on the outside of this. This means it is simply not possible for other units to get to your avatar and farseer (warlord) as they advance forward. As a block, they have 4 x smites, and lots of large T8 and T6 attacks etc.




9
Anyone have any advice around a Beil Tan shuriken army?

Do you think anti-tank is still required, or is it better to go full shuriken relying on the -3 rends? i.e. I wonder what 9 x 10 man Dire Avenger or 9 x 10 man Guardian squads in 3 battalions advancing up the field would be like (not that I'm going to purchase all of those models).

e.g. 3 battalions (no hqs yet) with 3 guardian squads in each with a bright lance is 949 points. But for that, you get 180 Shuriken catapult shots and 9 Brightlance shots.

Add Doom on an imperial knight and it's going to hurt, isn't it? And besides HQs you still have 900 odd points you can still add.

If you go Dire Avengers instead, you don't get the bright lances and you DO have to take Asurman and more Hq's, But you do get (if you can somehow fit him) an army 4++ save.

I think I prefer the guardians because you can move 7", advance D6 (average 4) + Shoot 12, so you do still get a 23" threat range, and you have good anti-tank even if you are hitting on 4's.

Guardians with a farseer on a bike and 7 Spirit seers for full smites is still only 1305 points for the core army.

For 700 points if you worried the enemy is going to get closer, you can buy things like 9 howling banshee squads with shuriken pistols that also gets the rerolls and use them to bubble wrap your guardians and just advance and shoot into 1/4 - 1/2 their army. And just using Banshees as an example, that's 1998 points.

7 Spirit Seers
1 Farseer Skyrunner
9 Guardian Defender squads with 9 bright lances
9 Howling Banshee squads with exarchs with executioners

180 x shuriken catapults shots
50 Shuriken pistol shots
9 Bright lance shots
Potential for 8 Smites

9 x Close combat units all moving, advancing and charging the same part of the board for the combined Hand to Hand and the entire army except the bright lances (which cant be sniped out and will last to the last guardian defender) and can shoot different targets to the guardians - sure at 4+ to hit).

I get it also - guardians arnt hard to kill, even in cover either. But thats a LOT of models to focus down - about 140 of them. And no shortage of models to get objectives on your side.

What do you think the enemy has to focus on first. Sure the safest place to be is in close combat so they cant be shot, but that's also what the banshees are for.

Or should a beil tan list include units like warwalkers waveaerpents and vypers?

Or should a beil tan army be focussing on as many shuriken weapons as possible.

Thoughts?

10
Discussion: Eldar / Re: Back on the Eldar hype train!
« on: November 09, 2017, 04:22:46 PM »
Welcome back.

Yes Dark reapers are pretty good. Even Reecius from frontline gaming thought maybe they are now undercosted.

I have no idea as far as Ynaari goes. But first impressions are pretty good. I dont think its overpowered compared to some armies and you will still cop a hiding if you make a mistake.

The points reductions are very nice and helps balance the codex, but as said before.,.. it doesn't mean you can do things better. You cant horde better for instance, other armies can do it better. But for my money im happy with it.

11
I take your point guys on warlocks etc. I'm not the font of all knowledge in 40k and don't profess to be. Even the menu are not really articles from me, but rather I've put the call out to all of you to contribute.

Saying all that:
- my point was obviously about the fact that 8th Ed 40k is the synergy around characters. Trouble for Eldar is that we don't get synergy like a chapter master gives a space marine chapter. Most of ours seems to be reroll 1's.

Saying that where the synergy is for us in in our psychic powers. I also agree about warlocks, I guess i wasn't so much trying to advocate for them, rather im advocating for their psychic powers. So if its more efficient to take spiritseers so be it.


12
My initial thoughts:
- I'm going back to how I used to play Eldar. 100% of my army vs 1/3 of theirs.
- You need a 20 man strong type bubble wrap unit to wrap your army
- Units should probably be bought in larger and not MSU style formations The actual impact is larger and you get more bacng for buck
- I still see Psychic powers as how to do 'real damage' to your opponent. A farseer and at least 2-3 warlocks or spiritseer is a must.
 
- Certain combos cant be stopped. Since they are very reliable, they can usually be counted on and therefore should make it into a lot of lists:
  • 10 Fire dragons dropping in via webway gate
  • 10 Wraithblades OR Wraithguard with D-Sythes. Add a WArlock on a bike to move to a part of the table where you intend them to land. Then use Quicken on the wratihguard to move them closer. This takes more coordination then the fire dragons, but they are tougher, could also get Protect from another warlock and if a unit charges them that 10 auto hit D-Sythes.. ouch!

- Psychic powers/ strategems can compliments that make up for devastating combos. Examples are:
  • Doom (reroll all failed wound rolls) + Jinx(4) (enemy unit must subtract 1 from all saving throws)
  • Drain (enemy unit -1 to hit in fight phase) + Enervate (enemy unit must subtract 1 from all wound rolls in fight phase)
  • Strategem Matchless Agility (1cp - Advance 6") + Quicken (move as if it was the movement phase. This is more about catching an opponent out. Now you see a unit, now its in your fasce. Banshees anyone?
  • Lightning Fast reactions (2cp - Infantry with fly keyword - e.g. warp spiders or your autarch, enemy -1 to hit in that phase) + Conceal (-1 to hit for all range weapons) + Warspiders Flickerjump (-1 to hit). Even if your a space marines your only hitting on 6's.
(I'll be adding a psychic combos page and add these to it.
- I think a lot of armies need a farseer and 3-4 warlocks on bikes just to punch out these combos. Banshees threat range alone is insane with this. (M8" + Matchless agility A6" + Quicken M8" + 15" charge at least)

Command points and battallions
-------------------------------------
- I think most eldar armies, to get access to enough strategems should be 2 Battalions. With that you get 9 CP. If you add a "cheap" battalion on top, yes it costs more points, but you also get 3 more CP for a total of 12 CP. (3 rangers, 2 warlocks) = Battalion for 250 points. 500 points you can have 2 battalions.

Going nutts example! Escpeccially if this was a Beil Tan army!

Battalion 1
-------------
HQ
----
2 warlocks

Troops
---------
5 x Dire Avengers
5 x Dire Avengers
5 x Dire Avengers

Battalion 2
-------------
HQ
----
2 warlocks

Troops
---------
5 x Dire Avengers
5 x Dire Avengers
5 x Dire Avengers

Brigade 1
------------
HQ
----
3 warlocks

Troops
----
5 x Dire Avengers
5 x Dire Avengers
5 x Dire Avengers
5 x Dire Avengers
5 x Dire Avengers
5 x Dire Avengers

Elite
----
5 x Banshees with exarch and executioner
5 x Banshees with exarch and executioner
5 x Banshees with exarch and executioner

Fast Attack
----
5 x swooping hawks with exarch
5 x swooping hawks with exarch
5 x swooping hawks with exarch

Heavy
----
1 x war walker with shur cannons
1 x war walker with shur cannons
1 x war walker with shur cannons

- Ok ok... perhaps this is a bit nutts, however. 3 + 3 + 3 +9 = 18 command points.
- It is 1601 points. You still have 399 points left to spend. Get rid of an executioner from a banshee and you can still put in a wraithknight!
- If its a beil tan army, Shuriken heaven! Its about 159 shuriken cannon shots and 60 swooping hawk shots.

That is before you add your 400 points. If you added a fire dragon unit and drop it in? perhaps upgrade all the psykers to bikes and the odd farseer?  Something anti-tank... It would still be fun to play.
- Add Asumran for the 4+ Invun! AND replace a banshee unit with 8 wraithblades AND exchange a warlock on a bike. Now your bringing in a unit, quicken them into close combat and your army has a 4++ invun save. Walk it forward. The spiney bladewind of death.

- my 2 cents (so have a lot to learn for 8th)

13
Keep in mind that Fire Prisms have Fly; so they care not if someone piles into them in combat, so long as they can fall back far enough they can blast away.

Unless you're trying to fill 3 elite slots, save yourself the points and merge the two Fire Dragon units.

Dark Reapers are already really point efficient. They enjoy a 'Re-roll 1's' buff, but don't particularly need Guide. Perhaps consider letting them operate on their own and find a way to get your Farseer on a bike so it can move forward to support the Fire Dragons with Guide/Doom.

Gee, didnt know that. Learning lots about the 8th now. Thanks heaps!



14
Ok so My initial thoughts after my first proper game.

I made an error of judgment and in an effort to see how each individual unit did in my MSU unit formation across the board, i was spread too thin vs a chaos army that was half Nurgle/ have khorne berserkers.

Swooping hawk units
- Swooping hawk units. Buy them big in units of 10 or land them all together and pile on the shots and mortal wounds. A reoccurring theme across the whole game, was it was better to pile the firepower onto a unit to finish it off, then set 1 squad against it and hope for the best. Assault 4 is great. Just against T3 units. This new system is brutal as soon as the odds are not going your way. Shooting units like space marines with 20 Str 3 shots at BS 3+, means 13.3 will hit, and 4.44 will wound. Marines will save 3 of those wounds, hence even adding a couple of mortal wounds is just no good.

I actually have 4 units of Swooping hawks at home, and I would take all 4. But I would never separate them. I read a good article the other day that said... as an Eldar player don't get overconfident in your new found cheaper units. Other armies to it better... e.g. Astra Militurum and 30 conscripts.   

What the last final swooping hawk model did, was land on an objective at the last moment earning me line breaker. That is their awesome purpose.

Fire dragons.
I took 2 x 5 man units. Both landed together (OH MY GOSH WEBWAY PORTAL IS SO GOOD), but I split their fire. I tried to take on Typhus and a Nurgle mortar tank thing. I took Typhas down to 3 wounds and the tank to 4 wounds. But you know what... that Disgustingly resilient is Disgustingly horrid! They are SO hard to kill. I would have been better piling my shots onto Typhas, getting slay the warlord, and then try the tank next turn. Good lessons to learn.

3 x Fire prisms
You will be torn for linking them for a measly 1 Command point all the time, and targetting their biggest nasty every turn. You need a screen, but vs dedicated hand to hand units, there is nothing quite like having something charge your screen then pile into your tank. There's a tank our of action and those Khorne berserkers hurt. Now, saying all that, 3 fire prisms twice took a landraider down from 16 to 1 or 2 wounds in one shooting round. Watch for the tears of your enemies and they will want to read your rules. 1 CP for twin linking them is awesome. Saying that, I used the 2nd profile, D3 shots, -4 AP D3 damage. Stick to shooting tanks personally and not infantry.

Rangers
Rangers are handy in that something HAS to deal with them, especially if they are on an objective. But seriously they tended to be a nuisance to others rather than some brilliant sniping platform. Good, cheap and puts pressure on the enemy player at least into their mind. Again, place all 3 units near each other and pool your shots vs 1 TARGET. It's the Mortal wounds that hurt.

Wraithguard
Certianly was more resilient, but 8" flamer that has to get out move out of the serpent at the start of the turn. I killed a landraider close to them, but they guy got hit Khorne units out the back out of range of the flamers. I got charged next turn. Only rolled 4 shots from the D SYTHES so they were dead. They didnt play to the potential I can see in them.

Dark Reapers
Hmmm With a Beil Tan farseer as your army commander, they were rerolling misses all games.

Overall
Id still like to refine tactics around swooping hawks. I can really see them shine, but id by 2 x 10 man units and pile on the shots onto 1 unit. Thats the theme. Focus down the threats 1 or 2 units at a time, not be across the board in pieces. Units like swooping hawks are great for putting pressure onto parts of the board where you need it. Capturing points before the enemy does... just land in your turn.

I think webway gate is very strong. Spedning 3 CP for say.. 2 x 10 man fire dragons I think would be well worth it if you had the right targets. Alaitoc -1 to hit is very good. I'd rather not being hit by many guns, than having to roll 6's for a ulthwe FNP any day of the week.

Fire prisms - hmmm Are they worth it. The 1CP linked fire is very powerful, you just have to be willing to sink 510 points into it. And its purpose it to target 1 thing. So if you're facing a meta of super heavies, yep worth the points. If your not, its a waste just to destroy a rhino.

I ran short of command points. It might be wise to get an autarch as your army commander. Even to refund 1 point in the game would get you another twin linked fire strategem. Id also like to see how a Hemlock would go as well. There were a few units that I would have liked to placed pressure on but was just too far away.

My next game I will try Beil Tann all shuriken army. Though it might be a while before I get the game. A few weeks.


15
Ok, trying my first real 2000 pt 8th edition today. This is what im taking...

Army + 3 CP

Biel Tan Auc Support Det ( -1CP )
Farseer with Guide and Doom

AlaitocBattalion (+3 CP)
HQ
Spiritseer (for the full smite)
Warlock (With Protect/Jinx)

Troops
5 x rangers
5 x rangers
5 x rangers

Elites
5 x Fire Dragons
5 x Fire Dragons
5 x Wraithguard with D-Sythes

Fast Attack
5 x Swooping Hawks with exarch
5 x Swooping Hawks with exarch
5 x Swooping Hawks with exarch

Dedicated Transport
1 x Wave serpent

Alaitoc Spearhead Detachment

HQ
Warlock

Heavy Support
5 x Dark Reapers with exarch
5 x Dark Reapers with exarch
1 x Fire Prism with Spirit Stones
1 x Fire Prism with Spirit Stones
1 x Fire Prism with Spirit Stones

Strategy
------------
- Both Fire Dragons come on with web way portal when the best time to use them appears.
- Biel Tan farseer is the army commander - Sets up with Dark Reapers on either side. Used warlord trait to give Guide automatically on 1 unit, casts guide on the other
- Swooping hawks set up in the sky. Their plan is to harass light infantry with 60 shots a turn and place mortal wounds when they are needed. Their job is to remove the screening infantry so my wraithguard/ fire dragons can get in there.
- Wave serpent with Wraithguard and spirit seer. A nice little unit whose whole job it is to run up the table. I expect to lose them because people are petrified of them. so they should be. But itll be such a fire magnet that the Alaitoc Heavy support units will do their job.

And on top of that, if they do manage to get out, you have the serpent shield, command point serpent shield and the spirit seer Smite all there to cause Mortal wounds. I aim to coordinate these with the swooping hawks.

Fire prisms - obviously they are there to do business. Ther rangers will lay suppressive fire on any characters out there, but my real goal is to add to the bubble 9" their deep strikers can deploy and deny them ground.

I will be setting up in either corner of the board I get to remove as much space for their deep strikers to get.

















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