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Messages - Celerior

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Discussion: Space Marines / Re: Chapter Tactics poll
« on: November 29, 2014, 09:04:01 PM »
With occasional deviation (Raptors, Iron Hands), I have pretty consistently stuck with Salamanders. As a semi-minority-ish demographic, I like the fluff, and as someone who can't take goth music or grimdark seriously, I doubly like the fluff, and as someone now allying with regular humies, I triply like the fluff.

But originally, I just liked my squads to be really good at whatever it was they were meant to do. When facing infantry,
8 bolters = 1 Salamander flamer, more or less. And when I painted my first marines, I painted them green. I like green. "Green can be cool, and friendly-like... and I think it's what I want to be." - Kermit the Frog

Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 1500pts Raptors
« on: November 29, 2014, 06:35:11 PM »
Aw man... nice list, but I feel like you're under-using your techmarine's cover-boosting. Up a ruin's cover to 3+, and on turn 1, your Raptors have 2+ cover saves!! And all you have using that cover is a single thunderfire cannon?

Only plasma? Granted, they're good, but surely additional sources of anti-horde would be nice? How about heavy flamers on the dreadnoughts?

Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 1500 Pt Chaos daemons Vs. Dark Angels
« on: November 29, 2014, 06:23:56 PM »

I recently got into Astra Militarum, after having played mostly Salamanders for years. I might one day go all out Astra Militarum, but I've enjoyed getting to know them as allies. There, I feel like I can compensate for their weaknesses while using their strengths**. I get to say "In the context of what I know, how would I use unit X?" and "My list could really use a unit like Y!" rather than try to grasp a totally new context.

My comments also represent a cop-out. I can't actually give you proper advice because I'm only familiar with the Space Marine, Astra Militarum, and Eldar codices. Sorry!

**my list is also on this forum. X = platoon command squad, and the answer to the first question was give them sniper rifles to create heavily discounted sniper scouts. Y = IGNORES COVER LASCANNONS!!!

Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 2000 Mechanized Ultramarine List
« on: November 29, 2014, 06:08:44 PM »
Replace the land raider with a devestator squad, and give the tactical squad which had been using the raider a rhino.
Take the ten-man tactical squads, and make sure each has a long range heavy weapon. (A multimelta won't do.)

Now you have some options...

Option 1, most often when you have first turn, you would combat squad your tactical squads. Between them and the devestator squads and predators, that's a respectable amount of firepower. You could use the devestator doctrine if, using the whole deploying-second thing, your opponent put him/herself in a good position to neuter your firepower. During the shooting phase, after shooting, flat-out your rhinos to block line of sight to your heavy weapons.

Option 2, most often when you have second turn, start with your devestator squads and your heavy-weapon-carrying combat squads on the field behind line-of-sight blocking terrain. Leave everyone who can't hide in reserve. (Your opponent may GIVE you first turn if he has no targets, but on spinal reflex alone, he will probably pick to go first. DO NOT try to sieze the initiative.) He won't be able to do much, if you deployed well. On your turn 1, declare devestator doctrine, pop into sight of as few units as possible, and shoot 'em up. He should again have few targets, but if he's been moving towards you, he should get to your deployment zone right around the time your reinforcements show up and use the tactical doctrine to lay into them. To make option 2 more viable, I'd recommend replacing one of the predators with devestators as well. Extra bonus to this tactic is that your fliers will probably show up after your opponent's.

Consider this drawback of predators: When you have 1st turn, your opponent has generally seen your deployment, and has deployed his forces to minimize your firepower's use. Repositioning will cost you the usefulness of your sponson weapons. When you go second, you have to stay out of sight or get alpha-struck by your foe's heavy weapons first. Ravenguard scouting and turn 1 stealth solves these problems one way, and Ultramarine devestator doctrine solves it another way, both at the cost of, over the long run, being squishier to small arms fire (but perhaps more resilient to, say, lascannons).

I should mention that I really like the plasma bikes with the tactical doctrine.
And I don't own any fliers, but a pair of lascannon fliers looks AWESOME.

Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 1500 Pt Chaos daemons Vs. Dark Angels
« on: November 28, 2014, 11:14:56 PM »
I think it would be rather poor form to punish a fellow player for tailoring his list to face CSM, but then tailor your list to face DA specifically.

I have little advice to give you as a demon player, but since you're facing a bike squad, I recommend you keep some forces on the board to defend your heavy artillery. The bloodletters, perhaps? Those are the guys with power weapons, right? If he gets first turn, he could catch your artillery before your reinforcements showed up, and even if he gets second turn, he might get there before they can assault, which would be turn 3 at the earliest. Or he could have his knights deep strike turn 1 (If I remember their rules right), and then your artillery is in even more trouble.

I agree with a certain internet advice peddler (Commissar Gamza on youtube) who says that deep strike is awful, especially for assault troops.

My advice? Don't go all-demons at once. You won't have to go rule hunting constantly, which makes a game less fun. You'll get to know a few units better at a time. You'll have all the necessary slots filled at least partially by your regular army, so if you misuse your demons you have something to fall back on. And you will have some units your opponent did not anticipate. If you bring an allied detachment of them, your friend can't complain that you tricked him, either. You are in the enviable position of knowing a battle-brother army really well. Bring mainly CSM, except for a few units about which you say "Ooh, I could use some of THAT!"

Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 1850 Salamander/Astra Militarum list
« on: November 28, 2014, 03:50:13 PM »
Thanks for your feedback, Brian.

In the games I've played, I haven't put the devestators in the rhino. The Rhino has blocked line of sight early, or siezed objectives late. There are enough other dangerous targets (cover-ignoring lascannons!) that when my opponent targets the devestators, I'm usually pleased.

I will take your advice on the meltabombs.

I think that in the new edition and codex rules, they don't have to wait until their 2nd turn to fire. I can't find anything that says otherwise, in the rulebook or the codex. If not, I have my source of points for grav guns...

Discussion: THE LIST / 1850 Salamander/Astra Militarum list (updated)
« on: November 28, 2014, 01:13:56 AM »
This list may periodically pop up at the top. My apologies if this annoys you, I just edit this whenever I change it. I've organized this list by function and modified it slightly. There's a primary detachment of Salamanders and an allied detachment of Astra Militarum. Units from the AM codex will be marked with the # symbol.

Part A: Suicide drop pods. Their purpose is to take out high priority targets. See Fritz' video on delayed gunlines. These are the speed bump meant to tie up my foe so the big guns can hammer away for longer.
185 Command squad, 5 meltaguns, drop pod
140 Tactical squad (5 men), combi-melta, meltagun, drop pod with deathwind launcher
  95 Assault squad (5), 2 flamers, drop pod
110 Assault squad (5), 2 flamers, drop pod with deathwind launcher

Part B: Classic gunline units. Some provide heavy weapons, some provide volume of fire, some provide templates and orders like ignoring cover.
144 Devestator squad (6), 3 lascannons
125 #Company command squad, camo, 2 sniper rifles & 1 autocannon, Mstr. of Ordnance, Astropath
  38 #Platoon command squad, 4 sniper rifles
  68 #Infantry squad, autocannon, sniper rifle, meltabombs, boltgun
  63 #Infantry squad, autocannon, sniper rifle, boltgun
  87 #Conscripts (29 men)
105 #Heavy weapons squad, 3 lascannons
  65 #Wyvern

Part C: Force multipliers. Explained below.
195 Chapter master on bike, artificer armor, power fist
125 Terminator level 2 librarian, storm shield, force axe
  50 Techmarine
  50 2 Ministorum priests
  75 Primaris Psyker, lvl 2

Part D: Late objective seizers, or counter-assault unit.
130 Bike squad (5), 2 meltaguns, meltabombs

Exactly 1850 points.

Some items of note:
* It's fluffy! Salamanders defend and lead regular humans often!
* I'm bringing almost exclusively infantry because everyone is so worried by knights and fliers these days that I figure I can gain an advantage by relying on very few vehicles.
* Absurd synergy. The space marine characters can give ATSKNF to guardsmen, while ministorum priests give marines rerollable saves in the assault. I can attach the chapter master to the company command squad and twin-link two bombardments at once with the primaris psyker.
* My opponent is punished for castling up (by bombardments) or for spreading out (drop pods).
* Fritz' recent (Dec 31 '14) video on how to win doubles tournaments basically uses this idea, except in this case both forces are being controlled by the same player.
* I brought a few hard counters to specific things. Helldrakes? Three 2+ rerollable salamander characters. Deep strikers or FMCs? Conscripts or guardsmen. Heavy armor? 5 drop pod meltaguns. Bubblewrap? Flamer drop pods.
* If the librarian joins the ministorum priests and the bike squad, they can provide a solid wall against assaults: T5, 2+/3++ rerollable armor saves, and that's assuming I don't get invisibility! (3 rolls on telepathy usually.)
* One notable flaw: Lots of kill points!

Please critique. Where and how would you attack it?

Anything I should add or remove? Specifically...
1) Should I try to squeeze in a rhino for the devestators?
2) Thoughs on the meltabombs?
3) Grav on the bikers?
4) Any ideas to reduce my unit count without losing firepower?

Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 2000 Mechanized Ultramarine List
« on: November 27, 2014, 09:26:36 AM »
A few things bothered me reading this list:

1) The amount of firepower it can put out on turn 1 is very small for its point level. As Fritz would say, on turn 1 your army is in as good shape as it is going to be. What are you going to do with that 1st turn that will define the game?

2) Salamanders use drop pods to be in their opponent's face turn 1, before they can be shot at. Ravenguard use scouting or outflanking.

3) There are lots of squishier targets than the land raider, and the land raider isn't delivering anything unignorable. An opponent could leave the land raider alone while picking off squishier targets without suffering for it.

I have never played against a list like yours, and the dakka of each 10 man squad is impressive, but if they're mostly sitting in rhinos halfway across the board at the end of your 1st turn, they need a better delivery mechanism. Also, you need more weapon diversity. What if bolters don't turn out to be particularly effective against the foe you're facing? T8 ignores strength 4, and wraithknights/wraithlords aren't that uncommon.

Regarding Ultramarines tactics, I'd expect to see devestator squads rather than vehicles.

Overall, I felt like 2000 points should be able to have more tools.

Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 1850 Mech-Assaulty Raven Guard
« on: November 26, 2014, 07:27:04 PM »
For those people who say that AV 11 is weak, it's the equivalent of T7, in that it takes S7 to wound it on a 4+. Lots of it could be a good thing.

I think I understand what you're going for: If you have first turn, you can unload soldiers with flamers and meltas along the entire length of your opponent's deployment zone. Sort of like a drop pod army, but with more mobility. Your men are mostly decked out for close quarters shooting. If faced with an assault themed list, you can hang back.

I'd like to point out that with scout, you automatically get outflanking. Anything within 18" of the board edge is in melta range. Add that to your tactical arsenal if you haven't already.

When I looked at the list, I was surprised somehow at how few units you had. It struck me that you have some opportunities for points savings. Front and center are the combi-flamers. No way should you be paying 10 points for a one-shot flamer, especially if their tanks are hanging back.

Why hang back with the razorback plasma guns? They want to be within 12", while the assault cannons are happy within 24". Maybe I just don't understand what the list is trying to do.

Speaking of spamming AV 11, one more thought: I'm a fan of 5 man dual flamer assault squads in rhinos. They are cheap and can be very effective. I know your fast attack slots are filled up, but if a slot or two empty up in this list, consider sticking one in. For the cost of one of your troops units, you could get almost two! (Or one and a cheap librarian, making the list legal again)

Discussion: Astra Militarum / Orders to mixed allied units?
« on: November 23, 2014, 09:03:18 PM »
Hey, I've been running something for a while which I just realized might be against the rules. The AM codex states that orders may only be issued to units from codex: AM. I've been using space marine characters to boost the leadership of things like conscript and heavy weapon squads.

Is it legal to give orders to a mixed unit?
Would the order apply to the guard models, just not the marine models (as I've been playing)? Would I use space marine leadership?
Has there been an FAQ?

No one in my gaming group or the tournaments I've played at has complained, but I feel guilty thinking I'm likely doing it wrong.

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