Author Topic: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...  (Read 4059 times)

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Offline mcphro

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8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« on: April 25, 2017, 08:59:48 AM »
Im not suggesting we will get nerfed, but lets face it, Ynaari are way powerful (so are tau btw), Eldar as a whole are powerful and at any tourney, any army should be able to be taken to the top. When you see the same 4 - 5 armies at the top and they are talking about rigourous rebalancing, something has to give.

EIther we will be kept the same but points go up, Our rules will get a chnage and a rebalance, or we get nerfed.

My one wish, I dont mind the nerf, they say units will be rebalanced .. great. But then make models cheaper (points wise).

In the 40K universe, assassins should be like 100-125pts points (for a model that can be one shotted)... they used to be!
But what do you think they should do to Eldar. I dont see Scatbikes going away, they are released like that in the box arnt they. But maybe 40 points each not 30?
Id like to see Wraithlords come way down in price. A full kitted out Wraithlord with 2 brightlances... should be no more than 140 points. Other wise they outstrip units like Falcons.

What say you... if you had to nerf Eldar, what do you see happening?


Offline Morollan

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 09:49:01 AM »
If units have been rigorously rebalanced as suggested then there are really only two options. Either Eldar have been nerfed or most other codexes have been buffed. A mixture of the two seems more likely though. Scatbikes, Warp Spiders and Wraithknights would seem to be the logical place to look at nerfs as these are the most egregious offenders in 7e.

I'd also prefer to see Guardians (and all variants thereof) reduced back down to WS/BS 3. There really is no logical reason for them to have the same WS/BS as Aspect Warriors!

D-weapons on infantry also needs a massive swing from the nerf bat, in fact I'd like to see ALL D-weapons nerfed outside of super-heavies and such like.

On the flipside, the Avatar and Wraithlords are in need of a significant boost to make them playable.

Sort out all that and I think the Eldar codex will still be in a good place without being blatantly overpowered.

Offline Dark-Zero

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 06:52:45 PM »
Movement us our new friend. This will be the edition of the unkillable transports and with eldar movement we could have some tasty assaulting going on. Bring on the banshee in serpents

Offline TearoftheDragon

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2017, 03:14:20 AM »
While some units need nerfing, general Eldar will need to see a points change with their high Initiative Stat going the way of the Dodo.

Offline mcphro

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2017, 03:21:49 AM »
Yea id agree with that. The new assault rule means charging unit strike first. Eldar take a hit there because we either charge first and go first anyway due to our higher INT, or now they charge us first... and they hit first as we have no INT.

Id have to say, Id like to see Eldar nerfed a bit. Even guardians type units back to BS/WS 3 (makes guide have a purpose and they ARE citizens not aspect warriors). Id then argue for cheaper guardians as a result.

This means any guardian type transport would go back in points. And TBH, I think id love to see the conditions, where we DO TAKE ALL OF OUR ASPECTS AGAIN!. Sorry to put that in bold, but we are eldar, not 6 x warp spiders eldar armies.

Apparently, Tau are out for sale across the galaxy because they can be bought for any army...

It is the Same with Warp spiders. There are more warp spider shrines than any other aspect because that's all that makes it into army lists almost, especially competitive lists.

I used to win lots of games in 2nd Ed, and that is because I knew how to play my army. Not because we were overpowered.

So TBH, hit us with the nerf bat. And do it to everyone else too. Wouldnt it be nice to see a huge variety of armies at LVO winning. Maybe even Orks for a change.

But make our stuff cheaper and give them cool rules that make us want to take them. Banshees were always good. Its just how do you deliver them? Now we can with Dark Eldar transports. So things are certainly improving.

I can't wait to see how things are with 8th, and if you don't like it, give GW feedback. They are now listening.

p.s. Its not like I want to see Eldar wiped out either, but the BEST victorys are the ones you had to work for. We have so many types of units that can perform well. But we dont take them because.. oh its a tournament, ill take 6 squads of warp spiders... you know what i mean.

I think if they dumbed down guardian units to BS 3/WS3, but made them 10% cheaper, that would give us more points to pump into units that give Eldar that unique flavour. And it doesnt make Guardian units bad either, but it makes to take units like farseers buff and guide units.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 06:19:11 PM by mcphro »

Offline TearoftheDragon

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2017, 05:22:55 PM »
I agree with everything you just said. I love running one of each aspect.  And guardians should be cheaper but not as good. I've been playing Eldar since 2nd and love the older style armies. BS3 equivalent jetbikes would make them not too cheap again.  I think Autarchs are really going to suffer without a high initiative and they will end up dying to marine sergeants if something isn't done to balance their lack of Init.

Offline mcphro

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2017, 04:17:18 AM »
Well, TBH, Im wondering if all guardian type units, or with guardian pilots were made BS3/WS3 like they used to be, how much would they drop price?

Another issue I think, is windriders with scatterlasers. with BS 4, they could stand to be nerfed because they 'used' to be 1 cannon per 3 bikes, and with BS3 too. But if they took them back to BS 3, I think we could argue that we could keep all the cannons. If they kept them at BS4, id argue to drop them back to 1 cannon.

Obviously, that would make: Warwalkers, Falcons, Vypers etc BS3. If they dropped, I dunno, 10% - 20% as a result, would that be a good thing? What would you put that extra points into if you could? Is it too much of a nerf?

But wouldn't it give legitimacy to Aspect hosts?

Another thing.. scouts!
Scouts can now move and shoot with a -1 to shooting. So give them guide and that might give a large unit some help. I wonder if sniper rifles will get ap modifiers?

Another thing.. Artillery pieces!
Artillery can now move and shoot with a -1 to shooting. Take lots of D cannon batteries and walk them forward into the enemy lines....

Another thing... Wraithguard!
Im predicting that Wraithguard units will go 2 wounds like terminators. They are that class of troop and they are certainly higher toughness like a carnifex, just with the 3+ save. So if wraith lords etc go up in wounds, im hoping wraith guard do too.

Movement...
 If marines movement is 6''... ours has to be at least 7 or 8. And they said nids will have more then that making them 8 to 10. Kind of makes you wonder though. Gee... what will harlequins get?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 06:49:16 AM by mcphro »

Offline Odras

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2017, 07:30:21 PM »
I don't think Eldar will be nerfed as much as a lot of people seem to think. I still remember similar thoughts being shared before 7th edition was released when our wave serpents were gods in 6th. A lot of people were predicting that the sky would fall in and that Eldar would be nerfed to unusable. Yes the serpents got nerfed but overall Eldar got stronger.

I am hoping for a similar thing to happen with 8th edition, but to do a better job at it. Within the Eldar codex I hope they do a little bit of rebalancing so that I can use my wraithlords, my striking scorpions, my fire prisms and night spinners, however I still love my warp spiders, jetbikes and wraithknights so my biggest hope for the new Eldar is that there is a large number of viable options available in the codex.

As far as Eldar vs everyone else, I hope that everyone else gets brought up to a similar level as the top guys, although some slight nerfs for the top guys would not really cause a problem. One of the best things I like about playing 40k recently is that the armies that I play against/with most (Eldar, Tau, Demons, Space Marines, Necrons) all feel powerful and cool to play with at the same time as managing to be very different. I hope that all the armies will have that feel to play against and with.

TLDR:
1: I hope that all armies become viable.
2: I hope that for a given faction one guys army can look quite different to another guys army while still being viable.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 07:32:49 PM by Odras »

Offline Morollan

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2017, 06:23:29 AM »
TLDR:
1: I hope that all armies become viable.
2: I hope that for a given faction one guys army can look quite different to another guys army while still being viable.

If they pull that off I'll be happy and I imagine every other gamer will be too.

Online Turnip Jedi

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2017, 05:06:55 AM »
Hopefully nothing too severe, units that I think are in for a tickle from the nerf broom

1) Scat Packs,  a tricky one to call, given the changes to vehicles I'm not sure they will be as nasty as before, also now everything wounds everything on 6's will Shuriken Cats / Cannons get some tweak to make them worthwhile options

2) Warp Spiders, the movement will get toned down and I'm fairly sure current Flickerjump will go, the Spinners might become 'flamers' again

3) I could see Guardians going down to 4+ to hit, but maybe the Warlock attachment having a +1 power (I think with BS effectively going away that Falcons, Walkers etc could stay at 3+ to represent those being having trained and experienced crews)

4) Not nerfs but with the movement stat coming back I think our faster stuff could well go up to 7/8 and slower ones down to 5

5) Soulburst, needs to go and we all pretend it never happened
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 05:12:45 AM by Turnip Jedi »

Offline Morollan

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2017, 04:53:40 AM »
also now everything wounds everything on 6's

Where did you see that? I know they've said that everything can hurt anything but I don't recall seeing anything about 6's wound anything. I did however see that they've mentioned combining fire and I suspect that will be the route they go down to enable anything to wound anything. They also said that 500 guardsmen could take out a land raider with lasguns, which would lean towards that version of the rules.

Online Turnip Jedi

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2017, 11:48:36 AM »
also now everything wounds everything on 6's

Where did you see that? I know they've said that everything can hurt anything but I don't recall seeing anything about 6's wound anything. I did however see that they've mentioned combining fire and I suspect that will be the route they go down to enable anything to wound anything. They also said that 500 guardsmen could take out a land raider with lasguns, which would lean towards that version of the rules.

That was just something folks guessed at from the Las-Gun / Raider example as 500shots@4+, 250hits@6, 41 wounds, assuming a 3+ save, does approx 13 wounds, which based on speculation that Wounds would be about triple Hull points would give a Raider about 12W, but its all guess work at this point, and of course the combined fire tease could totally invalidate the hurt everything on 6's

Offline Morollan

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 04:33:47 AM »
Sadly you were right. Feels like a really lazy solution to a non-existent problem.

Online Turnip Jedi

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Re: 8th Ed... Eldar nerf bat incoming? What say you...
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2017, 04:51:32 AM »
Sadly you were right. Feels like a really lazy solution to a non-existent problem.

I'm still undecided, I think part of it is the limitations of a D6 system, if it was a D10 or higher then 1 in 10 'lucky' hits might feel a tad more reasonable