Author Topic: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels  (Read 6367 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« on: July 06, 2017, 11:04:46 PM »
Hello again everyone I want your help this time to make a competitive list for 2 separate Dark Angel armies. I am looking to make two 2000 point lists. One for Ravenwing and the other for Deathwing.

I do not know what sticks just yet as I do not have that many games under my belt yet. From what I have seen though the synergy between the wings is gone for now. Which is disappointing as someone who enjoys the fluff of the Dark Angels.

This is what I have been thinking so far, I havent run any points yet, this is just my train of thought.

So firstly for the Deathwing I was going to have it led by Belial and 2 Librarians in terminator armor, maybe trade one out for Ezekiel and stick him in a land raider with squad of knights or normal terminators. Or maybe an interrogator chaplain but since I have Belail he already allows me to reroll failed hits, so I would only take the chaplain for the aura of dread and he is cheaper. The core 3 elite choices I was going to have were to be a Knight squad, an apothecary and an anceint. Then the extra choices I was going to throw in some land raiders, not sure which variant, generic deathwing squads, and maybe another knight squad or champion. I really want a venerable dread but they dont seem worth it honestly now that they can no longer ride in pods, they have lost a lot of mobility, but maybe it would do something as my opponent would focus on the other deathwing squads.

For the Ravenwing the only thing I am certain on is to have it led by Sammael on Corvex, along with again a librarian or interrogator chaplain. Then have a few black knights with the old command squad, apothecary, champion and ancient. throw in a darkshroud or 2 along with a vengence or 2. A dark talon and my nephilim and some generic ravenwing squads with melta guns and maybe an attack bike with multi melta.

I really need your guys feedback on this one however, I really do not know what sticks as it stands and my common enemies are tau, death guard, thousand sons, ultramarines, grey knights, and white scars. Fighting Guilliman is no joke as the Lion is not back yet.
  • Dark Angels

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2017, 01:34:37 AM »
Hello again fellow sons of the Lion so I have figured out some more specifics for my armies. I now have the beginnings of what I think is a solid Deathwing list. not amazing by any extent but certainly solid. The list is 1250 points.

Vanguard Detachment:

Hq:
Belial: 150
sword of secrets and storm bolter: free

Librarian in terminator armor: 145
force sword: 12
storm bolter: 2

Elites:

Deathwing Knights: 225
5x storm shields: 25
4x maces of absolution: free
1x flail of the unforgiven: free
watcher in the dark: 5

Deathwing Terminator Squad: 130
4x storm bolters: 8
4x power fists: 80
1x power sword: 4 
1x assault or plasma cannon: 21
watcher in the dark: 5

Deathwing Terminator Squad: 130
5x storm bolters: 10
4x power fists: 80
1x power sword: 4
watcher in the dark: 5

Deathwing Ancient: 103
power fist: 20
storm bolter: 2

Deathwing Apothecary: 75
storm bolter: 2

Alright so the plan with the army is to have the knights, ancient and librarian in deepstrike. The librarian will come down with the aforementioned and  cast veil of time on the knights and watch them mulch high priority targets. Then the apothecary along with Belial and the other squads will unfortunately have to foot slog to the enemy, but thats why the apothecary is there, to help mitigate the damage, and Belial for the rerolls. I really want to put a land raider in this list to transport the foot slogers, preferably a crusader. However i am lacking anti armor so maybe a god hammer or a venerable dreadnought. The watchers are also there to stop psychic powers from destroying my squads, such as smite. Plus having the librarian helps.

However please any and all feed back is appreciated and I am still working on the Ravenwing list.
  • Dark Angels

Offline Tobas DA

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2017, 03:22:12 AM »
Hello Nightwing7x,

I did not post for a longer time, but I started playing more again with 8th.

Yesterday I played a 750 points "tournament" and tried out 3 different armies.

Greenwing with Azrael and all plasma (plasma is the way to go I think)

Landraider Crusader (+1 stormbolter) with 5 Deathwing Knights, Asmodai and 1 Tactical Squad

Pure Deathwing 3x 5 Deathwing Terminators with Storm Bolters only and 1 Primaris Lieutenant


Greenwing with plasma is strong, Azrael almost auto include (solid victory but other topic)

Deathwing Knights in a Crusader are excellent, Asmodai now gives 1 extra attack and re-rolls in combat. The Knights wiped everything in CC (1 Cybot, 1 10 man Tactical squads in one round of combat and 1 10 man Tactical squad in the next turn). The Crusader pumps out 12 Assault cannon shots and 28 Bolter shots at 12" and is resilient (only lost 7 wounds).

Pure Deathwing :'( still not very good, got tabled in turn 6.
2 things broke my neck, SMITE (lesson learned: bring the watcher in the dark! and a Librarian if possible). No fire support base, as you mentioned 50% off the units have to start on the table => food slogging is kind of a waste.

Solution for pure Deathwing:
Take a Landraider.
Take 10 man Deathwing Squads to teleport in, with this you can teleport in more models. Fearless, no moral disadvantage. And it is more likely that you have less units and can go first.
Take Venerable Dreadnoughts as fire support base. Twin LC and missile launcher or 2x Twin auto cannons. In the Deathwing game, that I lost, a Hellbrute with twin LC and missile launcher caused big problems for my Termis.
 
General lessons:
You need a "buff commander", Belial, Azrael, Asmodai ...
You need anti Psi with a elite force! Take the watcher.
Mix Deathwing squads with storm shields (~2 per 5), 5+ invul. will not save you. Even better now, because you can choose the model to take the wounds.
Keep the cheap Power sword Sergeant as sacrifice model.
Lightning claw Termis should be good now (on paper). Cheaper than in 7th, 39 points only with 2 wounds and better punch.
Deathwing Knights are better than TH/SS.



 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 03:37:37 AM by Tobas DA »

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2017, 09:41:19 AM »
Those are good pointers and I appreciate the advice, thank you son of the Lion. I think Deathwing is almost impossible to get to work competitively at smaller points so I have increased the points to 1750. The list is now as follows:

Vanguard Detachment:

Hq:
Belial: 150
sword of silence: free
storm bolter: free

Elites:
2x Deathwing Terminator Squads: 260
7x storm bolters: 14
6x power fists: 120
2x power swords: 8
2x storm shields: 10
2x thunder hammers: 20
2x assault cannon or plasma cannon: 42
2x watchers in the dark: 10

Deathwing Knights: 225
5x storm shields: 25
watcher in the dark: 5

Heavy Support:
Land Raider Crusader: 244
2x hurricane bolters: 8
1x twin assault cannon: 35
1x multi metla: 27

Vanguard Detachment:

Hq:
Ezekiel: 145
the deliverer: free
traitors bane: free

Elites:
2x Deathwing Apothecaries: 154
2x storm bolters: 4

Deathwing Champion: 118
halberd of caliban: free

Deathwing Ancient: 103
storm bolter: 2
power fist: 20

Alright so the over all strategy here is to have Ezekiel, the Knights, one apothecary, and the ancient in the crusader pushing forward. The reason I took Ezekiel over the librarian in terminator armor was because Ezekiel is the same points cost as him without any upgrades, and Ezekiel comes with more stuff and stuff to help the Knights do their job. (the book of salvation). Plus he can deny twice a turn on top of the watcher in the dark. While they push up and melt whatever is in their path, whether horde or elite their brothers will teleport into the field. Led by Belial he will take 2, 5 man deathwing squads with him into the heart of the enemy. With other support assets such as the apothecary and champion, all of this will make the enemy split his focus, not being able to entirely kill one unit, and even if they focus their entire army on one portion of this force or another, deathwing are hard to crack, especially with apothecary support on both ends. Subsequently if they pour all of their army into one section of this, then the other section can take advantage of that and counter attack even harder and quicker.

Now to do that ravenwing list.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 07:43:37 AM by Nightwing7x »
  • Dark Angels

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2017, 09:53:19 PM »
Alright guys I finally have done it, I think I have made a competitive Ravenwing list. The list is below and is 1448 points:

Outrider Detachment:

Hq:
Sammael on Corvex: 183

Librarian on Bike: 119
force sword: 12
twin bolter: 2

Elites:
Ravenwing Apothecary: 97
plasma talons: free
corvus hammer: free

Fast Attack:

5x Ravenwing Black Knights: 250
melta bombs: 5
corvus hammers: free
plasma talons: free

6x Ravenwing Bikes: 204
1x melta gun: 17

6x Ravenwing Bikes: 204
2x melta guns: 34

Ravenwing Dark Talon: 180
2x hurricane bolters: 8
stasis bomb: free
rift cannon: free

Landspeeder Vengeance: 132
heavy bolter: 10
plasma storm battery: free

So the idea is to have Sammael and the Black knights either hang back, allowing the normal ravenwing squads go in as screen units, while the apothecary hangs around where needed, whether healing or bringing bikes back to life he will play a valuable role. The librarian will try to be in the middle of everything for psychic support. The Dark Talon will push forward with either the black knight squads or the normal squads, providing cover fire and being a fire magnet. Finally the vengeance will be pure fire support, eliminating big threats such as dreadknights, hellblasters, tau suits/commanders, tyranid monsters etc.

Please any and all constructive criticism is welcomed.
  • Dark Angels

Offline Tobas DA

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 01:40:28 AM »
Hi,

no Darkshroud? I think the -1 to hit bubble is important, combined with aversion and hard to hit (Darktalon) it is nasty. And the Darkshroud is a fire magnet.

The Black-knights should still be OK, I would try the grenade launcher, 2D6 frag shots or D3 damage krak shots at 24" assault. I think a strong point is, that you can advance the BK 20" (gain jink save) and still shoot.

Ravenwing Bikes I donīt know, have not played them. Ad a Heavy Bolter Attack Bike as cost efficient sacrifice model with 4 wounds (FAQ 2 attacks). You can shoot the twin bolters and the special weapon with no penalty. Take all melta/ combi melta or flamer/ combi flamer (unit of 3 => 3D6 auto hits and 14 bolter shots/ 2 with combi bolter on 4+).
I am glad, that I did not convert to grav  :)

For plasma take the Black Knights.

Sammael, Librarian, Dark Talon I would also take them, good choice.



Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 09:23:03 AM »
Thank you for the advice battle brother.

I agree a darkshroud would be nice but I needed something that would play more of a long range support role that could deal with big monsters and vehicles so I went with the vengeance, I will play test however and see which I like more.

The reason I am not using the grenade launchers is due to the plasma talons also being assault weapons. They are assault 2 S7 Ap-3 18". I would much rather have the 6" reduction in range over a grenade launcher, as the plasma talon is better in every department, minus damage arguably and the plasma talons can kill you but only if you want them to.

Ravenwing Bikes are good to me because as mentioned before they are a screen unit for the black knights. They can also be a strong unit on their own while they cannot advance and fire their weapons like black knights they can take melta guns, which are threatening to nearly everything. Melta guns on top of their relatively cheap cost, mobility, 2 wounds and twin bolters are great in squads of 6.

Thank you for the advice again brother.
  • Dark Angels

Offline Tobas DA

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 12:56:36 AM »
Yes offense is the best defense.

You can never have enough firepower  8)

The Vengeance seems solid now (compared to normal Land-speeders)

Offline Tobas DA

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 12:13:59 PM »
What I have heard from the internet, with the new Space Marines Codex we will see the following price drops:

Space Marine Bike: -6 Points
Attack Bike: -10 Points
Land Speeder: -10 Points

If this transfers to Dark Angels, it will be a boost for Ravenwing.

Offline Tobas DA

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 80
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2017, 04:00:44 AM »
I fear, with the Space Marine Codex out, there is NO competitive Dark Angels List at the moment (using the Index 1). Especially not Deathwing and Ravenwing.

With the point drops (SM Codex) for Bikes, Trikes, Landspeeders (previous post) and the Powerfist (-8 points), it makes no sense to play Deathwing or Ravenwing.

You could proxy Ravenwing with Raven Guard Bikes and Deathwing (for example) with Black Templars Terminators (much cheaper and with chapter tactics).

I will do it in my next game, because power creep is rising in my meta. Lost the last 2 games (1650) against; Imperial Guard: 80 Conscripts, 2 Wyverns, 1 Manticore, Psykers, Commissars, Lascannons, Melta Vets, Chimera +++ ah and the Imperial dakka Knight! Ultramarines: Guillmann, 4 max. Devastator squads with 8 Lascannons, 4 Heavy Bolters and 4 Missile Launchers (castling up), Storm Shield Bikes and some more other stuff.
 
Donīt get me wrong, if the points and some good Chapter Tactics transfer to an upcoming Dark Angels codex, I think it will be good for Deathwing and Ravenwing.
 

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2017, 08:08:45 AM »
Agreed, without our own codex right now we are in a bit of a bad spot, with vanilla marines getting access to a lot of the same toys for cheaper and with more abilities. We do not have chapter tactics, nor army specific stratagems and what hurts the most is the lack of the 'Defenders of Humanity' rule.
  • Dark Angels

Offline ChaplainNemiel

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2017, 08:03:34 PM »
Well brothers...2 weeks ago I played my first game in 8th against yinarri (harlequins) -I got tabled but my opponenent was playing a highly competitive list and soul bursted me to death.
It will be hard to get 6th and 7th ideas out of my mind.

I took Belial leading vanguard
2x5 squads termies (AC + PC)  1 CF in each squad
1x5 knights
2 squads had watchers in the dark which as pointed out earlier are AUTO include - especially with no psychers.

1x5 BK
2X6 RW bikes w PG
1x DS w HB

1x Las pred
And 1 or 2 shooty dreadnoughts.
The list wasnt legal but I came for 1850 (still thinking 7th)

...Brothers whether you go DW GW OR RW or mixed.
You NEED lascannons. They were by far the most effective weapons and were popping vehicles every turn. The boons to stormbolters and such are sufficient to mow down light infantry.

My opponent was definitely caught off guard by the in your face deep strike. An employee of the store was not expecting me to do as much damage as I did.

I think my next list will be something like 2 detachments (vanguard and spearhead) -need more CP

Vangaurd
Belial

2x5 shooty termies
1x5 knights
WitD on all

1x  las Nephilim flyer

SH

Azrael

1x LRC w SB
2x Las Preds W SB

Azzy stays back buffing the vehicles and all DW units will be in reserve for a turn 1 DS....Or turn 2 depending on my opponents effective range.

I am still a little conflicted as I really would love to use Ezekiel or a chaplain  like Asmodai and apocethary but I still think the nephilim is very effective and 2 extra las shots are huge.

This list would also provide 6 command points
3 for battle forged
2 for each detachment
1 for Azrael.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 08:14:31 PM by ChaplainNemiel »

Online Nightwing7x

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy.
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 12:29:27 PM »
Thank you for the insight and ideas brother. I agree the flyers are effective as are lascannons and investing in laspreds is certainly a good idea. Personally I like to mix my preds to have the auto cannon with lascannons. The auto cannon on a pred is devastatingly powerful with a flat 3 damage, giving more consistency over the lascannon.
  • Dark Angels

Offline ChaplainNemiel

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 12:52:21 PM »
Good point indeed.

That said, 4 potential D6 wounds is hard to resist and I can split them up depending on target priority.
Azrael hanging out granting his 4++ bubble and re-rolling to hit on those vital  las and auto shots would be huge and I think will be my next experiment.

Offline ChaplainNemiel

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 164
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Edition Competitive Lists for Dark Angels
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 12:56:18 PM »
In addition.
Azrael, 2 preds and a LR will be enough to have Belial and my 3 squads of terminators in reserve which will most likely grant me first turn. In the event of a seize use azzy 4++ bubble for vehicles
Depending on speed and range of the enemy will determine if we want all termies to DS immediately. I love 1st turn DS. - my main concern is mobility once everyonr lands.