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Messages - SharkoutofWata

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Discussion: THE LIST / Re: 2000 - Black Legion - Abaddon Nurgle/Khorne
« on: September 13, 2017, 03:16:40 PM »
Too many Melta on the Plagues.  Two maximum, three maximum Plasma.  Weird restriction but it is what it is.

Give the Sorcerer MoT.  The Stratagem to throw an extra power out will come in handy.  Smite, Warptime and Death Hex are all very powerful and you'll want access to all of them.  There's no real restriction on who can take what Marks and who they're buddy with, so make use of Undivided Strategems.

If you want a disruption unit, use a Daemon Prince with Malefic Talons and wings.  Drop the Khorne Lord.  Way more bang for a bit more buck, but you can cut a CSM squad, split the 40 into two 20 and still be kosher.

I'd consider MoS on the Terminators for the Stratagem again, but MoN does ressurect so that might be more helpful in the long run.  If you had Combimelta, I'd push for MoS, but Plasma is prolly better to heal up and come back to life.

Drop the Attack Bike.  It hits on 4s after moving with a single shot.  Statistics say that it's going to only land a hit three times per game.  That's horrible for its price.  Twin Multimelta on the Raven is a much better investment.

What Tactics are you using?  That makes a difference for any other tweaks I might suggest.  It looks like it's in a good place right now without Tactics, so Iron Hands and Fists would be fine, but Salamanders and Ultras, I'd make some pretty significant changes.

General Discussion / Re: Can a dread still have two c c weapons?
« on: September 13, 2017, 03:14:53 AM »
You can have an Ironclad which has two melee weapons, and there's a few other variants that can take them but Dreads got limited in the Codex release.  You can use what's in the box and they didn't include the other options that are available through Forge World or 3rd Party bitz.  The page for the list in the Codex is 131.  Frankly, you never want to take two Fists anyway since that's 40pts of no benefit.  There's no rule granting universal +1 Attack for multiple weapons anymore.  The Ironclad has that rule, normal dreads don't.

General Discussion / Re: Getting back into 40k
« on: September 01, 2017, 06:16:04 AM »
Certain models and homemade conversions are not in the new Codex though.  The Land Raider Excelsior, Tyrannic War Veterans and maybe a couple other very niche models no longer are supported in the Codex.  Characters that never had models like many characters on Bikes and most notably Khan on Moondrakken are no longer in the Codex either.  If you fall into these categories, you will still need the Index for Space Marines, Imperium 1.  A few of my old models and conversions are no longer supported but GW has ruled that out of date models can still be used with the Index.  Just consider it a complication if and only if you have home done conversions or White Scars.

General Discussion / Re: Counting primaris as terminators for transports
« on: August 30, 2017, 11:50:56 AM »
I wouldn't push to have it implemented for my Primaris, but I like my regular dudes in a Land Raider Godhammer and genuinely like the Repulsor way more than a Crusader in terms of firepower.  For now, my Primaris section is small enough and built to be simply basic footsloggers, screening what matters and hanging out on Objectives otherwise.  Gulliman is going to be their primary support, so I'm not in any rush to shove them in metal boxes that he can't join them in anyway.  it might be because I didn't spend much money on my Space Marines army compared to others or because I routinely start new armies on a whim, but I don't mind the money grab.  I'm used to buying new stuff for new playstyles.

Discussion: 40K Rumors / Re: Codex Releases?
« on: August 30, 2017, 02:14:07 AM »
AdMech is confirmed for after Death Guard so I'm sure it won't be long from now.  September is a good bet.

Discussion: Chaos Space Marines / Re: The Best 8th Edition HQ Choice?
« on: August 29, 2017, 12:43:05 PM »
Daemon Prince with wings and claws.  Add relic and/or powers of choice and there you go.  They have a ridiculous amount of bang for their buck and hide behind other units like any other Character ready and waiting to spring ahead and kill something.  CSM HQs are pretty dry otherwise though.  Even my Huron lost his teeth when his ability got downgraded to a basic hit aura.  The HQ slot is where I put models, not strategies now.

Discussion: Tyranids / Re: Hormagaunts or termagants or gargoyles?
« on: August 28, 2017, 06:30:16 PM »
Not powerful, but Termagants will see the most play no matter what kind of Nid player your friend is.  But yes, it is a choice between utility and coolness.

Discussion: Tyranids / Re: Hormagaunts or termagants or gargoyles?
« on: August 27, 2017, 10:36:16 PM »
Termagants are the gaming best choice because they can always find a place in an army.  Hormagaunts are the coolest because of just how they look, but they're bad right now.  Really crappy and they fail at being good at their only role.  Gargoyles are good too but only in a highly mobile winged army, otherwise they're pretty out of place.  Very niche little unit.  Termagants are boring, simple but useful.  Simple to paint too, but again, boring.

Discussion: THE LIST / Re: New list
« on: August 23, 2017, 11:19:24 PM »
I've found my personal balance at a 'single' Tac squad and then another unit of something else.  Personally, I'm running Primaris Marines as the third choice but that's just cause of fluff reasons.  Scouts are a decent choice with Cloaks and Snipers.  But the 'single' Tactical squad is two squads of five, each with a Sergeant.  One Heavy Bolter, naked Sergeant.  One Flamer, Combiflamer/Chainsword Sergeant.  Turn 1, rush ahead and pop smoke.  Turn 2, drop the Heavy Bolter on a decent in cover position and use the crap out of the Hellfire Strategem for the rest of the game.  Turn 3, torch something and charge with the rest.  This fills your Troops slots fast and gives you much needed CPs.

Heavy weapons come in a lot of forms.  I use Sergeant Chronus in a Land Raider.  Takes a HQ slot, costs nearly 400pts, but he hits on 2s until he's dead.  That's MASSIVE.  It's not easy killing a Land Raider in cover in a single turn and if he's alive even a little bit, he's still such a big threat with all his teeth.  I use a Captain and Lieutenant for rerolls and not a whole lot can take that beating.  A Devestator squad with two or three extra guys and a babysitting Apothecary are another common choice.  Las or Missiles, I like Missiles because I have Las elsewhere and having variety is important with the rest of my list considered.  Las is better though in 80% of the games folks play.  The Apothecary revives the useless models you use as ablative wounds, keeping a unit of seven alive like a unit of twelve if the game goes okay.  Hide in cover and you have a 2+ save making even Lascannons struggle.  And Predator Autocannons are beasts.  If you want to delete something flimsy, that Autocannon does the friggin trick.  Keep the Cannon and add some Lascannons.

Other options that are used against me are Hellblasters.  Two units of five, Guilliman and an Ancient with Relic Standard also deletes things.  You force your opponent to risk no-loss Overcharge when they kill a model.  The guy is dead, the banner let's him shoot again, why wouldn't you Overcharge?  S8 AP-4 2D, thats some friggin hurt AND they can be mobile.  Move them all up the field around Guilliman as a roaming band of pain.  I don't have Guilliman or I'd have adopted that Tactic by now.

Thunder fire Cannons in a pair or more.  Each Techmarine heals the gun it's not crewing, because why the hell not.  Lots of modest fire, but if you're roaming around, good to have something that isn't and can still reach out and touch someone.

Stormravens are no joke.  You want a way to make a Terminator or Dreadnought option viable, bring a Raven.  They're deadly and cheap, which is exactly what you need.  But, they don't mesh well in lists with Guilliman.  Too many points either direction to make it cohesive so I'd skip flyers altogether if you're running Guilliman.

There's a lot of ways to run Ultramarines and I like a tank parking lot, but that's just my preference.  The key is that you want to be hitting as much as possible on 3+, rerolls as needed, have atleast six Lascannons in your list and some additional way to pop tanks in case Turn 1 goes really bad for you.  Some guns and units just don't fit that bill.

Discussion: THE LIST / Re: New list
« on: August 23, 2017, 08:54:07 PM »
WAY too many Tacticals.  What exactly are you planning to accomplish with that many guys?  This isn't the days of Battle Company anymore, you're not going to be able to win with Rhinos.  Cut that number down by about half.  Get your squads focused on what they need to be doing.  A Heavy Bolter, maybe two, are great in an Ultramarines list because of the Hellfire Strategem, but Plasma Guns are next to useless, Lascannons need to be in Dev squads or not at all.  Plasma Pistols are a waste of points.  Combi Weapons are superior in literally every way.  You're Ultramarines.  Fall back from combat and shoot more shots, don't hunker down and fire a measly pistol while the attacking unit is safe from others of your guys.

Drop the ridiculous Stormhawk.  You're Space Marines and hitting on 4s is a sad showing.  You get your natural BS against air targets, half of which STILL make you -1.  The Stormtalon is simply better when you don't know your opponent, but I've since dropped that from my lists too.  Stormraven or bust.

Too many Terminators.  Again, drop the Assault Cannon. You deal less than a Wound per firing against MEQ on a 4+ to hit.  The gun is a failure in this edition.  You hit three shots, wound one, they save that wound half the time.  It's just plain bad.  Again, the Stormtalon is okay here because you're hitting on 3s against ground targets there.  But the rest of the Terminators are going to do what?  Any competent player will protect their butt, most armies will have screens, you're going to have nowhere for those Termies to go half the time.  You have nearly no armor, so anything worth shooting is going to slaughter your Terminators real friggin quick.

You need threats.  I'll neuter your army in a single Turn while you struggle to even put hurt on my Land Raider.  You have three sources of reroll and not a single thing worth giving that reroll to.  Predators, Land Raiders, something big and scary that you can actual use to make some kills with two smaller but scary things that can't be ignored.  A unit of Terminators is tough, but 500pts of them is rash.  Drop in fixes are a Predator or two and a Stormraven.  Find the points to make those two units a home and you might have a better time.

40K Rules Questions / Re: Shooting pistols in close combat?
« on: August 22, 2017, 07:02:09 AM »
Shooting phase of your turn.  Pistols aren't used at all during the Assault phase.

Discussion: Space Marines / Re: I Hate Dark Eldar
« on: August 21, 2017, 12:42:36 AM »
Go elite.  Don't take tax Squads if they serve no purpose and use the Detachments that fit the units you want to actually take.  Hide your Deredeo in cover in a place it doesn't have to move, or take the Invul booster that I think Loyalists still can grab.  Take more Lascannons in places on GOOD bodies.  Don't take a Dreadnought with a Lascannon, take a Predator with an Autocannon and Lascannons.  Take quality units instead of just the appealing stuff.  As annoying as it is, if you want to improve your game against a regular opponent, your list has to git gud.

A Stormraven and single Ven Dread carrying Lysander and some Terminators should be enough to keep the style you like without sacrificing quality.  You need to weather the Alpha Strike, which means staying far away Turn 1, letting him come to you and having the ability to close the rest of the gap.  Which means more than 6" movement.  Dark Eldar are a glass cannon.  They'll break against the units in Marines that are like walls.

Discussion: Space Marines / Re: Scouts army
« on: August 16, 2017, 12:11:12 PM »
The downside to Land Speeders is that they are hitting on 4s after moving.  Hitting on 4s is pretty less than ideal.  I'm rarely worried about a single Typhoon shot or a Multimelta every other turn.  It's just not worrisome.  And they're easy to knock down again when they finally start biting.

Stormtalons and Stormravens though, they're awesome.  Hands down, awesome units with almost no downside.  I just dropped a Stormtalon in my own Ultramarines list and not sure if I made the right choice still.  They do work.

The only other unit that comes to mind is Reivers, but they aren't Scouts despite their look of stripped down armor.  They are pretty interesting though.  Better than Space Marines in smaller armor.  Not nearly as bulky.  Anything else wouldn't be in Space Marines.  What comes to mind first is the Elysian Guard Regiment, or Scion allies in a separate Detachment so you keep your Chapter Tactics.  Something that can fluffily be guided in by your Scouts and strike hard on the things they can't quite deal with.

Discussion: Space Marines / Re: Scouts army
« on: August 14, 2017, 07:43:14 PM »
Scouts are a Raptor thing, so you'd be using Raven Guard Tactics.  This unlocks Chapter Master Issodon who takes the hard hitting pregame up a notch and gives you more flexibility with deployment.  A techmarine almost seems like the necessary other HQ because of how weak Tarantulas are.  It would atleast give some ability to survive, even if it's only minor.  One big thing to note is that if the closest vehicle target for a Lascannon type is in combat, you don't get to shoot.  That's how I understand this specific rules interaction based on the FAQ about determining closest target when attempting to target characters.  Weird that Assault Cannons don't seem to have the same restriction.

I might also consider a Land Raider Proteus.  It doesn't break the theme since they have an Exploatory Augry Web thing that seems like the sort of covert deal that would work well with this sort of theme.  I just can't put my trust in Tarantulas considering a good player can and will make it so they can't shoot anything important.  Zig Zag a Flyer in front of it so you're trying to hit on a 5+ for Turn 1, then kill it at their leisure.  Having a significant threat elsewhere should allow more of the emplacements to survive.

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