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91
Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar Tactic Idea - The Eldar Close combat Assault
« Last post by Tahnir on January 09, 2018, 03:31:25 PM »
I know this is kinda off topic but I'd really liked to see the biel tan trait to be re rolling ones on all aspect weapons.....
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar Tactic Idea - The Eldar Close combat Assault
« Last post by Nebuchadnezzar on January 09, 2018, 12:35:52 PM »
I think that we can use other attributes too and not only the almighty - 1 to hit rolls....  If you have an eldar opponent with a list full of dark reapers as the lists you propose then you would have no attribute at all.
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar Tactic Idea - The Eldar Close combat Assault
« Last post by eldarglim on January 09, 2018, 11:26:27 AM »
The banshees can charge adding 3 to the roll. They charge first. They are trying to multi-charge enemy units leaving space for the scorpions to stop the possibility of overwatch if possible.

The Banshees only get +3" to the charge roll if they advance, which they can not do the turn they arrive via webway
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General Discussion / Here Come the Golden Bananas!!
« Last post by sindri_tepek on January 09, 2018, 09:53:18 AM »
Is anyone else excited about the upcoming Custodes codex? I'm not certain how they may fare in the current 40K setting but nearly all the models look fantastic, so at the very least they will probably wind up being a passion project. My hopes are high that the new codex might be able to do justice to the "Best of the Best", but not going overboard on codex creep while also having at least some semblance of viability.

Any thoughts on the upcoming banana-rama?
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar Tactic Idea - The Eldar Close combat Assault
« Last post by Odras on January 08, 2018, 07:30:03 PM »
I have changed my thinking on this only just recently myself after reading a pretty in-depth discussion between The Mattler and Abusepuppy on a 3++ Is the New Black website. I don't see the value in running your army as a mixed group of craft-worlds.

If you were to run all three of your detachments as Alaitoc you would lose the following bonuses:
  • Biel- Tan warlord trait - you don't really have a good target unit for that warlord trait anyway
  • Biel-Tan re-roll ones for Shuriken weapons, if you change it to Alaitoc then your Autach can buff your dire avengers for the same buff without having to take a sub-par warlord trait.
  • Leadership bonus for Biel-Tan aspects. You have minimum squads, by the time the leadership matters even without the +1 the squad is basically dead anyway.
  • Saim-Hann reroll charges for you warlord and the shining spears - you might make a few less charges, but you shining spears are more likely to actually be alive to make those charges
  • Novalance Relic - It's good but the cost of taking it (1 detachment as Saim-Hann) is not worth it

Other suggestions I have:
  • Drop Maugen Ra for an Autach with Swooping Hawk wings + Reaper Launcher. This way if you really need you can have the Autach sit back with your reapers, although I would suggest running him up with the dire avengers instead. You don't really need the reroll ones with the Dark Reapers because they are all about the exarchs with tempast launcher, who reroll ones anyway but you do have the option to leave your Autach back there anyway.
  • Secondly you have not a lot of capacity to deal with big tough things, but have a lot of horde killing capacity. I would change your dark reapers to 3 units of 3 with tempest launcher exarchs, + 1 group of 10 with missile launcher exarch. You should have the left over points from dropping Maugen Ra for an Autach. I would then give your farseer, guide + doom and put him on babysitting duties. This also allows you way better use of forewarning with 10 reapers, which is amazing.
  • You could re-arrange your detachments to get 2 Battalions which would give you 9 CP instead of 8
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar Tactic Idea - The Eldar Close combat Assault
« Last post by Nebuchadnezzar on January 08, 2018, 09:18:41 AM »
Yes they can shoot both their weapons,  that's why they have good shooting.  The only noote I have to make is that I believe that the autarch has to be the warlord to give back command points and yes you should give him the lance relic
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar Tactic Idea - The Eldar Close combat Assault - MARK II
« Last post by mcphro on January 08, 2018, 07:17:42 AM »
Ok, list Mk 2... List first, strategy later.

Battalion (Biel Tan)
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HQ
----
Asurman
Farseer (Doom, Executioner, Smite)

Troops
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5 x Dire Avengers with Exarch with Twin Shuriken Catapults
5 x Dire Avengers with Exarch with Twin Shuriken Catapults
5 x Dire Avengers with Exarch with Twin Shuriken Catapults
5 x Dire Avengers with Exarch with Twin Shuriken Catapults
5 x Dire Avengers with Exarch with Twin Shuriken Catapults
5 x Dire Avengers with Exarch with Twin Shuriken Catapults

Outrider Detachment (Saim Hann)
-------------------------------------------------------------
HQ
----
Autarch on bike with Laser Lance

Fast Attack
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3 x Shining Spears with exarch with Star Lance
3 x Shining Spears with exarch with Star Lance
3 x Shining Spears with exarch with Star Lance
3 x Shining Spears with exarch with Star Lance
3 x Shining Spears with exarch with Star Lance
3 x Shining Spears with exarch with Star Lance

Spearhead Detachment (Aliatoc)
--------------------------------------
HQ
----
Maugan Ra

Heavy Support
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3 x Dark Reapers with Exarch with Tempest launcher
3 x Dark Reapers with Exarch with Tempest launcher
3 x Dark Reapers with Exarch with Tempest launcher
3 x Dark Reapers with Exarch with Tempest launcher
3 x Dark Reapers with Exarch with Tempest launcher
3 x Dark Reapers with Exarch with Tempest launcher

Strategy
----------
Each part of the list again supports the idea to use 100% of my army vs 50% of theirs. This has a LOT of units, so your opponent is likely to get the +1 to who goes first.

A couple of points to note. This army has a LOT of shooting!
- The Dire Avengers add 6 x 12 = 72 Shuriken shots
- The shining spears = 76 Shuriken shots
- The shining spear speed 16" and charge or 22" and still shoot with no penalty and the ability to reroll failed charges being Saim Hann.
- The Dark Reapers add = 12 normal Str 5/8 shots and 12 x D6 Str 4, AP -2, 1 Damage shots. (Avg 48 shots that you don't need line of sight for.)
- this doesn't count for Doom from the Farseer on enemy key units, 8 Command points for the army that the Autarch can have a chance of getting back

The armies potential
------------------------

That's a potential 196 shots *** a turn and any unit. In addition:
- 72 of those shots from the Dire Avengers reroll 1's being Beil Tan
- 12 shots + average 48 tempest launcher are all rerolling 1's due to Maugan Ra's Ability
- The Shining spears all reroll 1's to hit due to travelling with the Autarch
- The Dire Avengers have a 4+ inv save and the Shining Spears all have a 4+ Inv save vs shooting and reroll all wounds vs vehicles and monstrous creatures and the Dark Reapers all have a -1 to hit over 12".
- 148 shots all rend at -3 AP, and all the dark reaper shots will be wounding at -2 AP or better.
It gets better... I didn't add any of the Shining spears shooting attacks with their lances if need beyou'reSo you're looking at 12 x Str 6 -4 shots and 6 x Str 8 -4 shots, then the charge on top of that. Add 2 wounds and an extra attack and Toughness 4 and they are doing really well.

- This means the entire army reroll 1's no matter the weapon or craftworld trait, 3/4 of the army has a 4++ save, a HUGE number of shots rend with -3 AP, and 12 of the 18 units are all anti-vehicle or able to take on Infantry easiliy as well.

- Autarch - I would also consider spending the command points for the strategy to add another remnant of glory to the aurtach. Perhaps the SHIMMERPLUME OF ACHILLRIAL which makes him harder to hit, or the special Saim Hann lance so he does 4 wounds on a 6+ not 2 wounds.

'whew'

Then to protect the warlord (Farseer), The warlord trait will be Fates Messenger: FATE’S MESSENGER --> Add 1 to the Wounds characteristic of your Warlord. In addition, roll a dice each time your Warlord loses a wound. On a roll of 6, your Warlord does not lose the wound. Then, they also take the Phoenix Gem and only keeping 1 of the Dire avenger units (he travels with Asurman and the Dire Avenger Blob. This means the Farseer is back to 6 wounds, has a 4+ save with a 6+ FNP, and then finally if he is killed, he is coming back so long as 1 mortal wound was done with a unit nearby.

*** Question for this edition - Seems silly, but since units can shoot multiple weapons... Can a shining spear fire their spear AND their twin-linked Shuriken Catapults in the same turn? If any other unit can fire all of their weapons now as well???

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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar Tactic Idea - The Eldar Close combat Assault
« Last post by mcphro on January 08, 2018, 05:48:22 AM »
Good
I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that you can't webway strike the Avatar. It is restricted to infantry or bikers.

He is right about the Avatar. Mcphro the problem is that they would still need to make a charge longer than 9 inches, which is unlikely at best even with rerolls. The gap between deployment zones is 9-12 inches. Shining Spears move 16 inches, which means that they could just move and charge a unit turn 1 depending on deployment.

Wow... shows how much i know huh! LOL.

OK.. I guess 6 units of spears instead then.  I will say this.  I think having a reactionary unit that can strike at a section of their line or onto their deepstrikers can make your opponent think twice about their deployment.

Ive always liked getting into the enemies face.  For a start,  people make their armies to some sort of plan.  By being able to get stuck into them throws a spanner into their plans.  Second... if you use shining spears then nobody expects them to move how far they do.  I have another game on friday and im thinking of giving this a try.

Thanks heaps guys.
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar Tactic Idea - The Eldar Close combat Assault
« Last post by Nebuchadnezzar on January 08, 2018, 02:23:32 AM »
To begin with, the bad thing about scorpions is that the whole unit is a shield for the exarch to survive and deliver his attacks. I love scorpions and tried to use them in 7th edition and now but I couldn't make the charge and the opponent killed them before they could move. Only karandras managed to charge and he is a beast but when he is alone and without invu, he is dead.
I tried many times the deepstrike/charge combo and until now it was not successful for me. That's why I prefer shining spear. they have invu, they can reach the opponent, they can charge flyers and they have a decent shooting. So I can't give you any advice on scorpions because I did not manage to use them correctly. Even if they manage to charge only exarch or karandras can deliver a decent amount of damage that can threaten the enemy.
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Discussion: Eldar / Re: Eldar Tactic Idea - The Eldar Close combat Assault
« Last post by ForgedInTheCrucible on January 08, 2018, 01:22:46 AM »
Good
I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that you can't webway strike the Avatar. It is restricted to infantry or bikers.

He is right about the Avatar. Mcphro the problem is that they would still need to make a charge longer than 9 inches, which is unlikely at best even with rerolls. The gap between deployment zones is 9-12 inches. Shining Spears move 16 inches, which means that they could just move and charge a unit turn 1 depending on deployment.
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