Author Topic: Tzeentch Army  (Read 2149 times)

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Offline deadmanonfire

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Tzeentch Army
« on: February 19, 2014, 08:59:40 AM »
So hi there :-)

i am thinking about starting a themed army and i kind of thinking about some ways to make it effective.

so if i would take a big group of pink horrors, with a attached herold with 3 warp charges, that +1s on spells and the 3+ you get +2 to your inv....

would that really make a unit with 8d6 with s7 ap4 and maybe a 3+ inv for all the horror or did i get something wrong?



best regards
hannes
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 09:12:17 AM by deadmanonfire »
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Offline Breng77

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Re: Tzeentch Army
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 09:14:20 AM »
Almost it would be 8 D6 (assuming you use all your warp charges for Flicker fire, chances are you won't) S6 AP4 shots.  With an improved save (3++ or possible 2++)

Now you won't ever shoot 8D6 shots because your Herald will roll twice on Divination to get Prescience at least, if not Forewarning (which can get you the 2++ save)

Essentially you will always cast Prescience to get re-rolls to hit because re-rolls for the whole squad is better than 1D6 extra shots.

Without re-roll
4D6 herald shots (average 14 shots) = `7.8 wounds to T4 Models
4D6 Horror shots ( average 14 shots) = 5.8 wounds to T4 models

With Re-roll
3D6 Herald Shots (10.5 average) = 7.8 wounds to T4 models (re-rolls mean you get the same hits with fewer shots)
4D6 Horror Shots (14 average) = 8.75 wounds to T4 Models.

The big downside to this unit is deny the witch, as half your shooting gets shut down on a successful deny roll.

Offline deadmanonfire

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Re: Tzeentch Army
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 04:27:45 AM »
so this sounds amazing. if i would add another 2 heralds i would get a 6 chances to roll the 4+ inv and an additional 6d6 shots. and i would pass look out with a 2+. sounds kind of fun :) also i would like to play screamers. maybe in groups of 9.
do you recomment the 2 headed guy or the other one to make demon princes heavy support?. i want to play at least 1 together with 2 of this defiler thins (sorry i dont know the exact name.

also i am struggling with the elite slot. flamers should be fun, but i wonder if they will survive one turn of shooting.

any tricks i don't know with a tzeentch only army? ;)

thank you very much
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 05:51:24 AM by deadmanonfire »
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Offline Breng77

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Re: Tzeentch Army
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 06:44:49 AM »
Screamers are good (and also work well with heralds attached for the improved save tricks.)

Most people take Fateweaver, controlling the warp storm and his additional re-roll each turn, help with the random elements of Daemons (especially the Grimoir)

No real reason to take elites as you will be very unlikely to have points left over for them.

Offline Ordo Bob

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Re: Tzeentch Army
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 07:49:18 PM »
I've played all Tzeentch for quite awhile.

I have to say, banking on Flickering Fire to do work is a losing proposition. you fail 1/12 casts, and your opponent denies at least 1/6 of those that do work, which gives you about a 30% failure rate right off the top. When you really need those shots to kill or soften something, it will fail (Murphy's Law applies on the table!) and you'll regret it!

Horrors can be quite survivable against things that don't ignore cover simply by going to ground. In Area or in Ruins that should give you a 3+ cover, and you reroll 1s...in the area of Terminator-level survivability.

Flamers...I don't know, I want to like them but the're pretty squishy, and the FAQ that changed how range affects how wounds can be allocated really reduces their usefulness. I'd give them a pass.

Screamers are still pretty good. Fast, pretty tough, able to engage any target...but make no mistake they're not particularly killy. A common archetype is the "screamerstar", where you pack in some Heralds of Tzeentch on Discs, roll on Divination as many times as you can trying to get Forewarning (4+ Invuln), then using the Grimoire on the unit...now you have the 2+ with a reroll that will make your opponents cranky. You're likely to have some Prescience too, which greatly enhances their killiness, and if luck is with you some of the heralds can take Flickering Fire giving you some unreliable utility shooting.

To make that work reliably though really requires Fateweaver. I tell ya, I hated Fateweaver when the book first dropped. To me he was 300 points for a reroll. After playing him for awhile now, though, I'd not want to try a Daemon army without him. He does provide the reroll (once per turn...that means on your turn and then on your opponents), he keeps you reasonably safe from the Warpstorm, etc. Moreover, he'll have some pretty decent shooting attacks too. Flickering Fire, Pyromancy (the Primaris is a great deckchair cooker!), maybe Shriek from Telepathy...or maybe some of the really good stuff, Puppet Master, Hallucinate, Invisibility, Iron Arm...he can be a lot of fun. Keeping him alive can be problematic, but with some flying-off-the-table abuse, and hiding for the early turns until the Screamers take out the things that threaten him, he can be a great late-game objective clearer!

Lords of Change are also very potent. T6 makes them pretty tough and immune to most Instant Death. A couple Greaters for some increase survivability (3+ armor, 4+ FNP, reroll invulns, an extra wound and IWND), a Lesser for a Staff for S8, and lots of divination for tricks. Not bad at all!

And my favorite, Daemon Princes of Tzeentch! With 3+ save they're near terminator save...plus flying. Lvl 3 for Telepathy (for the game-winning pwoers there) or Biomancy (damned good powers there too!), or even a Flickering Fire for some standoff ability! Add a couple greater rewards for some survival enhancing and maybe even a lesser for some S8 melee power, and you've got a pretty durable model that's extremely versatile and VERY hard to kill (using his maneuverability, ability to fly off the table, hide behind LOS blocking terrain, etc).

I personally think that of all the Powers, Tzeentch makes the best all-around army if you want to go all in.

My personal 2k army of choice is FW, Three Heralds LVL 3 on Discs (2 have exalted rewards for Grimoire and Portal, other has Exalted Locus for S6 FF), 3 units of Troops (I mix in daemonettes now, but all Horrors works fine) and two full loaded Tz Daemon Princes (355 pts each!! Be conservative with these guys and they'll win you games!)

Good Luck! Let us know how your army evolves and how your games go!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 08:21:44 AM by Ordo Bob »

Offline deadmanonfire

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Re: Tzeentch Army
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 10:47:39 PM »
Thank you very much
amazing advice. and I have seen that there is much to learn for me. :D
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Offline deadmanonfire

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Re: Tzeentch Army
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 10:08:14 AM »
so here i got a first list
i am also struggling with the models. i don´t like the pink horror models and i don´t like the flamer ones. so i decided to play these models attached. the big on is fateweaver, die doglike creatures would be the horrors and the bird headed guy with the skull will be a herald. so my problem is the size of the doglike creatures. the are much bigger. so i decided to let them count as 2 horros and added "eternal warrior" after thinking about it, it should not work on template or blast weapons cause more models would be hit with normal horrors. do you have anything in mind? have i forgotten something`? something i have to find a rule to make things work like normal horrors?
the 2 heavy support will be played as a greater brass scorpion tzeentch style (the reason why i want to play demons... too much chaos space marine player in my group     http://www.coolminiornot.com/349256   )

anyone with a good model for the flamers? it doesn´t have to be a flame model. can also be a cool demon of any kind.


the plan is to attach the heralds to the horrors. so both groups will get a reroll to hit, one can get a 2+ inv and the other a 4+ inv.... hopefully...
sorry only got online codex in german. hope you understand it anyways.

***************  2 HQ  *************** 

Schicksalsweber, Orakel des Tzeentch
 - - - > 300 Punkte

Herold des Tzeentch
- 1 x Erhabene Belohnungen
- Meisterschaftsgrad 3
- Erhabene Präsenz der Beschwörung
 - - - > 150 Punkte

Herold des Tzeentch
- Meisterschaftsgrad 3
 - - - > 95 Punkte

Herold des Tzeentch
- Meisterschaftsgrad 3
- Erhabene Präsenz der Beschwörung
 - - - > 120 Punkte

Herold des Tzeentch
- Meisterschaftsgrad 3
 - - - > 95 Punkte


***************  1 Elite  *************** 

5 Feuerdämonen des Tzeentch
 - - - > 115 Punkte


***************  2 Standard  *************** 

20 Rosa Horrors des Tzeentch
 - - - > 180 Punkte

20 Rosa Horrors des Tzeentch
 - - - > 180 Punkte


***************  2 Sturm  *************** 

9 Kreischer des Tzeentch
 - - - > 225 Punkte

9 Kreischer des Tzeentch
 - - - > 225 Punkte


***************  2 Unterstützung  *************** 

Seelenzermalmer
- Dämon des Tzeentch
- Hexenfeuerschwall
 - - - > 160 Punkte

Seelenzermalmer
- Dämon des Tzeentch
- Hexenfeuerschwall
 - - - > 160 Punkte


Gesamtpunkte Chaosdämonen : 2005


what do you think of it? any tricks?

« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 12:46:51 AM by deadmanonfire »
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