Author Topic: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)  (Read 6237 times)

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Offline Fritz40K

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7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« on: May 22, 2014, 09:30:16 AM »
7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
Though my men may sleep, and my ships rest at anchor, my foes know full well that big guns never tire...

Look on my works ye mighty, and despair...

Offline Fritz40K

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2014, 09:30:53 AM »
More:
Though my men may sleep, and my ships rest at anchor, my foes know full well that big guns never tire...

Look on my works ye mighty, and despair...

Offline Fritz40K

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014, 09:31:09 AM »
More:
Though my men may sleep, and my ships rest at anchor, my foes know full well that big guns never tire...

Look on my works ye mighty, and despair...

Offline weidekuh

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2014, 10:11:22 AM »
Since it's a good place for psychic talk, here some stuff concerning psychic powers:

Cast sequence:
choose power
choose amount of dice
roll dice
resolve perils if double 6 or more.
deny the witch
resolve power if succesful

So a one wound psyker dies if perils before the power goes off.

Quote taken from Trasvi over from Dakkadakka.
Quote from: Trasvi from Dakkadakka

Code: [Select]
% chance to successfully cast with # of dice
WC  1       2       3       4       5       6       7       8       9       10
1   50.00   75.00   87.50   93.75   96.88   98.44   99.22   99.61   99.80   99.90
2   00.00   25.00   50.00   68.75   81.25   89.06   93.75   96.48   98.05   98.93
3   00.00   00.00   12.50   31.25   50.00   65.63   77.34   85.55   91.02   94.53

Chance to get perils (assuming  double 6' needed for perils)
WC  1       2       3       4       5       6       7       8       9       10
    0.000   2.780   7.410   13.19   19.62   26.32   33.02   39.53   45.73   51.55

Expect to see 3 dice for a WC1 power, 6 dice for a WC2, 8 dice for a WC3.

Compared to 6th: A ld10 psyker had a 91% chance, a ld9 psyker a 81% chance, a ld8 a 72% chance to successfully cast. All psykers had 5.5% of perils.
So to match a ld10 psyker from 6th casting a WC2 power you now need 6 dice. Netting you a 26% chance of perils. And your blessing can be denied. :o
And yes, Prescience is now a WC2 power. ;)

3 masterylevels: D6+3 power dice. Average of 6.5 dice.
2.167 dice per warpcharge.

5 masterylevels: D6+5 power dice. Average of 8.5 dice.
= 1.7 dice per warpcharge

10 masterylevels: D6+10 dice. Average of 13.5 dice.
= 1.35 dice per warpcharge.

The more psykers you have, the worse they get. Having many mastery levels is very unefficient.
In 6th you are able to succesfully cast most powers, even with 10 psykers in your army. In 7th you will only ever cast very few powers.

The new psychic phase is a nerf to psychic heavy armies.
A lvl 3 psyker may now cast one WC1 power around the same chance as he could cast three WC1 powers before. That's two less powers.
If you want to reliably cast a WC2 power (prescience) with 5 dice, you have a 81% chance of succes. A LD10 psyker had a 91% chance to cast the power in 6th. That's a 10% difference! You need 6-7 dice now to have around the same chance of success.
With 5 dice you have a 19% (!!!) chance of perils with worse potential results. 6 dice is 26% and your chance at casting a WC2 power is still worse than a ld10 psyker in 6th.
Deny the witch may be very slim on a blessing, but it's there.

Malefic has some terrifying psychic powers and may be the only reason why mass deamon psykers may be good.

You can have many psykers and a big dice pool to throw at some important powers and have a high chance they go off. While doing so also getting a high chance of perils.
In 6th you had a high chance to cast any powers AND you could cast almost all powers you had at the same time.

Basicly in 7th, psykers are point efficient in low numbers, but get worse the more mastery levels you have in your army. But you get the advantage of being able to choose more powers and having a better chance at denying.

I think the new psychic phase is a good thing. Might be fun to poker around with your dice.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 10:14:05 AM by weidekuh »

Offline Morollan

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 10:24:38 AM »
The more psykers you have, the worse they get. Having many mastery levels is very unefficient.

I'm not seeing that at all. You take as many psykers/mastery levels as you can if you are lucky enough to be a faction that is able to make heavy use of psychic powers. The more you have, the more powers you can force through. And forget about dispelling or denying those powers. The idea that you can now deny blessings is nothing more than a pipe dream. Odds of you rolling more 6's than I roll 4's? Virtually zero! And you probably have fewer dice to do it with.

Quote
In 6th you are able to succesfully cast most powers, even with 10 psykers in your army. In 7th you will only ever cast very few powers.

The number of powers you cast isn't really an issue though. It only really matters that you have enough dice to cast the powers that you want to cast. Anything more is superfluous. The extra psykers are there as psychic batteries and, in the case of malefic powers, sacrificial lambs. A daemon list I came up with a couple of days ago has 25 mastery levels which means I can force through 4 or 5 WC3 powers per turn. Try doing that in 6th! A Seerstar only really needs to get off 3 powers a turn and has 15-20 dice to do it with. That's roughly twice as many as needed and leaves a lot of dice to get a few of the other nice powers up if needed.

Quote
The new psychic phase is a nerf to psychic heavy armies.

I think we'll find it's a buff to the psychic big boys (Eldar, Daemons) and a nerf to the psychic nobodies (Tau, Necrons, DE). I suspect it's pretty neutral to everyone else.


Offline weidekuh

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 10:32:51 AM »
How many dice are you going to roll for one of those OP Warpcharge 3 powers?

Offline Morollan

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2014, 10:37:24 AM »
Well I reckon I can probably throw 7 dice at each of them on average. And yes, I can see the table you posted earlier so I know the percentages.

Offline weidekuh

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2014, 10:52:09 AM »
Good luck at your 33% of perils. Just sayin'   8)

If you are lucky, a deamon mass psyker army might just steamroll anyone, that's true. If the dice go cold, you basicly kill yourself off without your opponent doing anything. Since you have to have a reliable army to be competitive, I don't think such an army can be. The more games you play, the more crucial this is, because bad things will happen. There may be the odd one winning here and there with hot dice tho.

Offline Morollan

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 10:57:05 AM »
Good luck at your 33% of perils.

That's what units of horrors are for. What do I care if a single horror gets dragged back into the warp and still summons 10 more Horrors anyway?

Offline weidekuh

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2014, 11:27:46 AM »
I see where you're coming from and I agree that it can snowball into crazyness. But that's unique to only one army. Not seing psykers on a whole becoming OP because of that. Also if you take a look at tyranids, it seriously hurts them. Dominion is very important and it's much harder to cast now. Also their best ranged anti av13/14 is harder to cast.
Same for Jetseer council. You may be able to spamcast Fortune because of the Ghosthelm (probably), but your opponent can throw his dice at your conceal. You can't throw dice at a Warlock casting, he will very much die of perils. Now you probably wont have a 2+ rerollable coversave. Rerollable 3+ armor and 4++ invuln is still pretty good, but miles away from a 2+ and each wound is 50 points.

But for the sake of the argument, lets try out the example above. If you spamm psykers your mastery levels equal ~powerdice. (D6 is nearly insignificant % wise.) You pay many points for those 7 mastery levels you need to cast that WC 3 power.
7 dice have a 77 % chance of success and a 33% chance of perils. Since your Horror dies of perils before the power going off (unless this is different with the brotherhood), the chance is reduced to a 50% chance of success. If you fail your cast, the unit can't cast that same spell again. It may be worth the points or not, but I can safely say it won't be OP on average. Now again, you may have good luck and pass all your casts. Then it's getting really ugly for your enemy.

Anyway, let's wait and try it out. I'm just not as doom and gloom as most are about the psychic phase.

Offline Morollan

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2014, 11:55:55 AM »
Reading the comments in last week's WD it seems that Brotherhood of Psykers simply lose a member to perils, and as the perils occur on 6's (which are successes) the power would still work unless it was the last member of the unit.

And I also think Eldar will be fine as if they can't get Conceal off they can always go for Shrouding and/or Invisibility, which can have dice thrown at them and are almost impossible to deny.

Tyranids though, are indeed screwed. In so many ways.

Offline blackarmchair

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2014, 04:58:12 PM »
Can anyone actually read those cards? Am I just blind?

Offline weidekuh

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2014, 05:32:11 PM »
Can anyone actually read those cards? Am I just blind?
You can better read them here: http://imgur.com/a/8ddUf

I may still come over to the doom and gloom crowd, but because of something completely different. For example if you field double Farseer (2xML3) in your list and your opponent has something like Morollan suggested. What happens is that it completely shuts down your psychic phase. Both Farseers may cast between 2-4 powers together. The deamon player then throws 50 dice at your powers to deny them. Turning your 200 points plus upgrades into zero points worth. Basicly you'll fight 1550 vs 1850. Not fun.
The same happens to someone having only a ML1 psykers against double Farseer. Although the ML1 psyker won't cost as much points.

Offline blackarmchair

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2014, 05:41:08 PM »
Su-weet! You rock.

Offline tomjashroom

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Re: 7th Edition Psychic Cards (Full Pictures)
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2014, 08:34:32 PM »
IV never been a fan of thousand sons but hopefully the powers are awsome enough for me to justify getting ahriman now haha.