Author Topic: Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?  (Read 2567 times)

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Offline Slartibartfast

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Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?
« on: July 14, 2013, 02:31:31 PM »
Haven't seen the book because I'm on the road, but my son picked it up and read through it.  He doesn't like it at all.  Says every turn some random thing happens like tremors or all models taking a S10 AP1 hit.  He said that GW says points don't even matter.  Just bring everything you have.  If it's too imbalanced just give one side a few more assets.  He feels it's just loose to the point of being goofy.  Not really even a gaming system anymore.

That got me thinking because I watched a YouTube from Bluetablepainting recently where a fellow said he never plays Apoc because it can be just terribly imbalanced, making for a really boring, one-sided game.  He said he has much more fun just playing standard 40k at the 5,000 to 6,000 point level on a larger board - and that's with the old book.  Sounds like this book could be even worse.

So, is Apoc worth playing?

Offline Skari

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Re: Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2013, 08:50:37 PM »
In my oppinion it is well worth playing. The formations, assets and crazy rules really come into their own on the table. Being able to play with your hard collected (and in our case painted) models is something that every hobbyist aspires to. That being said, I have always played apocalypse with some inherent restrictions (this is more together with the social contract between other gamers in the gaming group). Balancing super heavies, minimizing the use of D class weapons for example. Also, clever use of strategic assets and deployment can really help balance the tide of battle. The thing is the mentality of apoc is different, you can't give your models names... Can't be attached to them as they will most likely be removed from the table. Sometimes the game can be decided on turn 1 after a volley... For one on one, yes 4k pts a side is a great value on a 6 by 8 and I recomment limiting the number of srheavies and formations to mitigate one sidedness. But come on! Who does not like a 15" template? :)
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Offline TheGreatJaboba

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Re: Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2013, 02:58:31 AM »
I played a game of apocalypse on the weekend, and it was a blast. My team got blown off the table, but being able to bring Abbadon, Kharn, Lucius, Typhus, and Ahriman all in one squad was hilarious. Typhus and Abbadon soaked an entire turn of enemy fire from probably 3000 points worth of models, and Abbadon died on the very last shot. It was amazing.

The Unnatural Disasters can be pretty brutal, but usually they affect both sides roughly equally, and Divine Intervention really didn't come into play. Moments of Glory are pretty great too. I'd sat have a game under  the new rules and decide for yourself. It may not be for everyone though. As Skari said, If you are attached to your troopers, or don't enjoy picking up squads of guys at a time, then you probably won't enjoy apocalypse. If you go ready for some shenanigans and hoping to see LOTS of carnage then you're sure to have a great time.

Offline Slartibartfast

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Re: Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2013, 10:12:23 AM »
You're right of course.  I need to try it out for myself.

The fellow from Bluetablepainting is a very competitive tournament player.  I hate tournaments.  I only play in them to sharpen my skills.  I much prefer fluffy games with a narrative.  Narrative campaigns are where it's at for me - so I might enjoy apoc a lot.  We shall see.

Offline Ravager

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Re: Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2013, 04:00:12 PM »
Yeah, I'd give it a shot I think it's well worth playing. The natural disasters can be interesting, but you certainly don't need to use them! We play them for the utter carnage though, it's a good excuse as previously mentioned to bring all special characters in a gigantic death squad... My favourite being the avatar and Phoenix lord formation!

Plus you get to use the big nasty super heavy vehicles, titans etc, which just look awesome on the tabletop dwarfing all other models.
Eldar Biel-Tan ~ 6000 points and growing
Blood Angels   ~ 3000 points
Chaos daemons ~ 1750points
Necrons ~ 3000 points

Offline Slartibartfast

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Re: Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 09:37:12 AM »
Well, I played a game.  My first impressions are:

Pros:
1.  Lots and lots of models with no worries about force org chart.  Just brought all my favorite stuff from my army.
2.  Big game with lots of players.  More people usually means more fun.  I enjoyed it.  There were effectively "sub-battles", going on all over the board some of which I didn't even get to pay much attention to.  I really like this because you can call for help and get some when you need it.  I sent my flyers to help the guy next to me and it made a big difference for him.  Lots of fun.
3.  Lots of different weapon and squad match-ups you would never see in a standard game.
4.  Super heavies are cool!

Cons:
1.   By turn 4 or 5 you're automatically getting "Exterminatus", on the disaster roll.  Everyone's infantry models pretty much got washed off the table by the end of turn 4  Only AV 14 vehicles were still on the table.
2.   Totally awful was the stretegem of bringing back any formation of your choice at the end of the game.  It could be fun if both sides take it.  Make for a huge desperate battle at the very end.  But if one side takes it it's an auto victory for them because the objectives are all scoring 5 pts on turn 5.  The board has been wiped clean and they bring in a formation that camps on all the open objectives.

So, over all, I would say that it's pretty much a joke (not a game) with the Stratagems and Natural Disasters in play.  Just a joke.  So, either play without them or make agreements that limit their power at the start.  Otherwise it's just stupid.

Over all, a really large 40K rules game would probably be just as fun, if not more fun.  But I will play both just so I can bring super heavies.  Can't wait for the new Imperial Armor Apoc book to show up!  Been dying to play a Baneblade with my Templars!!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 09:39:09 AM by Slartibartfast »

Offline Ravager

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Re: Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 04:42:15 PM »
I agree at the natural disasters are crazy, and exterminatus is the worst one to use, it will annihilate you and everything else on the board without a weapon being fired. However, I would only use them to add fluff I'd not use them in a normal apocalypse game, as there is enough carnage without them.

The replacements stratagem is quite a brutal one, but if you've annihilated a formation you're generally going to be doing quite well (at least until the exterminatus kicks in...)I must say I'm a sucker for taking replacements as my friends generally like to destroy my Titan straight off the bat in the first turn, so I like to bring it back with that asset. I do agree it can be overpowered, I only have a small Revenant Titan 9hp, but if for example an entire space marine company was returned there is no escape, still I think that would be an epic battle if you managed to destroy an entire space marine company!

I love the super heavies too, it's the main reason I love apocalypse, it's so thematic when a baneblade rips apart several squads of guardians... And I'm the elder player! Just love the carnage.
Eldar Biel-Tan ~ 6000 points and growing
Blood Angels   ~ 3000 points
Chaos daemons ~ 1750points
Necrons ~ 3000 points

Offline Slartibartfast

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Re: Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 09:01:34 PM »
You can actually bring back one model with less than 15 hull points any turn by spending one of your victory points.  Well worth it to bring back your titan.  The strategem lets you bring back an entire formation.  Since the rules as to what is a formation are so liberal you can lay a trap for you opponent by making your whole army one or two formations.  After everyone has exhausted their troops and the Exterminatus has done its work - you just bring back most of your army.  It's really just a mean thing to do.  It was my first game and I was just getting a feel for the rules.  I was set up like a clay pigeon by my opponent - who is "that kind", of a player.  I don't like playing him and that game was a big reminder why.

But, on the bright side, we did have four turns of epic fun.

Offline eris

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Re: Are the new Apoc rules just...well...annoying?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2013, 04:22:59 AM »
we did have four turns of epic fun.

Sounds good to me then. :)