Author Topic: Adepticon Iron Hands  (Read 7025 times)

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Offline hillshire

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Re: Adepticon Iron Hands
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2015, 03:40:12 PM »
A few things I'd like to point out in reference to the pictures in the previous two posts

1. They look much better in real life. The colors balance better and everything is more distinct.
2. The Legion of the Damned concept is that the most loyal heroes of the Imperium who's desire to destroy their enemies literally goes beyond death might become Legionnaires. So there are some Dark Angels, Black Templar, Iron Hands, and Sisters of Battle in their as well as some unmarked ones. I tried to model them coming out of a spectral mist with sparks of flame in it. Again, works better in the real world than in photos.
3. Notice the Battle of Sarosh Legacy of Glory icon I made on the right side of the Sicaran. Looks great in the real world. Makes me want to field the Sicaran all the time.
4. I made a set of Objective Markers and set them on the right side of the display. The number of gears indicates the number of the Objective. I was going to flock them or add some gravel but really, I just liked the brass against black and left them as is.
5. The banners were easy to make. I'm pretty happy with how they turned out. I modified the eagle one to make it double headed. I don't know if anyone noticed at Adepticon
6. The concept of the display is shifting platforms of brass. Eventually I'm going to either figure out how to solder or hire someone to do it for my so I can have strong and stable multi-levels
7. The Scouts are magnetized so they can be moved from their Land Speeder Storms to their own bases. This was kind of time consuming so I just kept alternate models on hand to speed things up
8. The tactical marines are heavily modified using 3-4 different kits to make them more cyborg
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 03:43:45 PM by hillshire »

Offline hillshire

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Re: Adepticon Iron Hands
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2015, 11:49:07 PM »
So, what was the meta for Adepticon? Well, I can only comment on what I actually observed but there were some definite trends.

First off, I was expecting a lot of AdLance armies (well, except in Highlander) and had been practicing hard against that, even going so far as adjusting my list (dropping a fluffy Dreadnought for a third squad of Legion of the Damned). As it turns out, I didn't even see one. My buddies say they saw some but they were rare beasts apparently. At other tournaments I've been to it seemed like half the field was AdLance. Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that we all expected all of the missions to be Maelstrom. Which wasn't the case. There were other missions mixed in.

Instead, the prominent theme was Daemon summoning. Daemons summoning Daemons, Chaos Space Marines summoning Daemons, Eldar summoning Daemons, Imperial Guard summoning Daemons. Daemons, Daemons, and more Daemons. The benefits are obvious for Maelstrom (and objective based games in general). The only disadvantage was in Kill Point missions. A lot of the top teams were running Summoning lists or lists that could access summoning as needed. For my own games I played against a few lists with Daemon summoning and won all of those. One of our top players plays a very strong Daemon summoning list so I've learned a lot playing against him which definitely helped.

Another theme, which surprised me, was traditional Space Marine battle companies. Pretty standard stuff: Devastators, Tactical Marines, Rhinos, Dreadnoughts, and Razorbacks. There were several of these. I don't know how successful these were. Granted I lost my first game of the tournament against Dark Angels Deathwing (mostly because of a bone headed mistake due to fatigue early in the game) but won all of the other games vs Space Marines. While my own army was single CAD Space Marines, I would hardly call it "traditional" due to its reliance on Legion of the Damned and specialist tanks.

Not surprisingly, Eldar were pretty common whether solo (lost that game, another error on my part contributed a lot to that loss) or combined with other armies. Daemon summoning Eldar were popular. Won a game against one of those.

Less bike armies than I expected. Less Thunderwolf cavalry too. Both have been very popular in other tournaments but far less common at Adepticon. Other rare sights were Grey Knights, Militarum Tempestus, and Sisters of Battle. Not a lot of Tyranids, Chaos Space Marines, or Dark Eldar either. There was a fair smattering of Orks. Those look seriously fun but too high a model count for me. I was the only player using Legion of the Damned so far as I can tell.

Another army I thought would be all over the place was Necrons but there were only a few. Some of the guys I talked to said they would have liked to have fielded them but either couldn't get their hands on Tomb Blades or couldn't get their army painted in time. They were the army I least wanted to be fighting against. Too much gauss!

Tau and Imperial Guard were popular for combining with other armies (including each other). Both for shooting and Guard for cheap bodies. Imperial Knights were fairly common as a single ally, frequently the Cerastus Acheron variant.

Fortifications were rare. The only things I saw being used were Skyshield Landing Pads and Void Shield Generators. Which were pretty common. And I've developed a plan for that in future games. Pretty simple really. Kill everything else along the while while driving up onto the Fortification with my Typhon and running over everything while using Legion of the Damned and/or Scouts to assault whatever is on there. Usually whatever is up there is kinda squishy so even Scouts can wreak some havoc.

One of my guesses in preparing for Adepticon was that flyers and heavy vehicles would be uncommon. Which made my one time Battle of Sarosh perfect for the Sicaran. One good round of fire was usually enough to bring it down or do enough damage that a single lucky shot later in the game would finish it off. In games where there were no flyers I was only down 25 pts. Land Raiders and other heavy armor were rare. I saw some other Typhons around the tournament but didn't encounter one in game. Mostly people were fielding a lot of infantry with transports. Which were nice soft targets for my Typhon to sweep off whole squads at a time with the Achilles to drop in some additional damage.

For myself, I was very happy with my Iron Hands. I don't think I'd change anything. They're still pretty new to me (I usually run Grey Knights) so more practice games against a variety of opponents and armies would have been very helpful. If I were to recommend an army for Adepticon to someone else, I would say Necrons. They're the most durable army in 40k, are strong in shooting, and can be strong in assault (Wraiths!). So far as I can tell, they have no weaknesses. Someone might say "but they have no psychic offense or defense!" So what? Their inherent special rules are as good or better than random ones you have to randomly succeed with. All the rest of us will have to figure out how to fight them effectively.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 12:06:07 AM by hillshire »

Offline hillshire

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Re: Adepticon Iron Hands
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2015, 11:57:02 PM »
Some highlights from Adepticon 2015 in no particular order:

Off the Table:

Getting the team together. They're a great group of guys (G3?) who are really dedicated to improving their game play and that of those around them. They're also very self regulating. Cursing is toned down when non-gamers are around and to avoid a negative vibe. Note, it's toned down. Not completely eliminated. We're only human. Cheating is not tolerated. Only happened once but that guy was tossed off the team. That was some years ago. Fortunately one of the team captains saw it and put a halt to it before it effected the game. These guys are clever and hilarious with tons of great stories and insights. There's no better crew to game with and then go out to eat at a fine restaurant to talk shop with.

While we were waiting for a table at Wild Wings Kenny Boucher remembered me and my army from the Forge the Narrative tournament. I was really moved. It's always nice when a real artist remembers your work. I wished I had been able to show him the improvements and details I had added since then.

Hotel breakfast. Sounds like a "so what?" right? I'll try to post a few pictures up so people can see what I mean. I loved it.

Talking with great gamers. As always, there were a lot of great people to talk to. Didn't matter who was winning or losing, we were having a great time.

Camp Adepticon. I was playing Highlander at the time but they looked like they were having a great time. The "merit badges" were a fun touch. I was a bit jealous. I wanted merit badges too.

Reaper Miniature's Paint and Take. A free mini you can paint up right then and there with the free brush you can choose and a bunch of paints to work with? Yes please!

Vendors. Once again the vendors were friendly and helpful without resorting to gimics. 

Space. There was sooo much more space this year! You could actually walk safely between tables! At first it felt like maybe there were less people but it soon became clear that the hall was just so much larger. And quiet. I don't know how they did it but even with the clattering of dice, whooping of the victors, curses of the stricken, and sobs of the fallen . . . it was amazingly quiet. You could hear each other clearly across the table. And the temperature was well moderated and the air kept fresh. Usually "gamer funk" will arise like a fog as the heat of the gaming takes over. This time it was barely noticeable. An amazing achievement!

Of all the tournaments I've been to, which isn't a great many, this was by far the best venue. I hope Adepticon is there again next year!


Offline hillshire

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Re: Adepticon Iron Hands
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 08:44:30 PM »
Gradually I'm going to go through a unit by unit analysis of their performance during Adepticon, starting with . . .

HQ
90   Aukusti Seppo
Master of the Forge (Bolter & Bolt Pistol, servo harness) - no upgrades
   Can repair or restore a HP on a 3+ due to servo harness and Iron Hands Chapter Tactics
   The Servo Harness can fire both its flamer and plasma cutter (one of which can be replaced by bolter shots)
   In Highlander the Master of the Forge was given the Shield Eternal

For the most part, the Master of the Forge only had three responsibilities: repair the Achilles, allow me to field multiple ForgeWorld tanks, and not die. For the first function he did ok but not as good as I had hoped. Most games, including ones I lost, the Achilles went undamaged and my Warlord was safe. On the occasions where there was damage, he only succeeded on his repair rolls a few times. Less than the 3+ should have rolled statistically. Still, it was enough to keep the Achilles functional in at least one of my games when it would have died otherwise.

Allowing me to field multiple ForgeWorld tanks was simply a list building mechanic. Really, I would have fielded him anyway since he made the most sense competitively and narratively for my army.

In regards to not dying, he did very well. At the moment I canít remember him dying. I do remember him being blown out of the Achilles and walking to the center of the board against the Grey Knights. Fortunately he had the Shield Eternal that time and survived a hit that would have otherwise caused Instant Death. As a result he was able to survive close combat with a Dreadknight, kill it with his servo harness, and finally score the Relic objective to win the game.

So, Aukusti Seppo did very well this tournament. If it werenít so expensive and rarely needed, I would seriously consider keeping the Shield Eternal on him. He's at the forefront of the attached picture.

Offline hillshire

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Re: Adepticon Iron Hands
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2015, 06:57:20 PM »
Troops
70   Command Escort Squad
Tactical Squad (5 boltguns)

Similar to the Master of the Forge, the tacs had three main jobs: make the Achilles Objective Secured by being inside (without them itís just scoring, not Objective Secured) which makes for a pretty tough Objective camper, provide a bit of shooting and ablative wounds for the Master of the Forge, and finally act as a speed bump if an assault unit was getting dangerously close. A few times I had them jump out to hold an objective while the Achilles went off to take another one.

If I had spare points I might have given them a weapons upgrade. Maybe a flamer or grav gun. Or at least a melta bomb. On the other hand, they were unlikely to see combat so it seemed better to spend the points elsewhere. And if things were bad enough that I was using them as a speed bump I wanted them to all die so that I could shoot or Thunderblitz whatever killed them.

Generally they did fine, nothing worthy of song but in their defense they spent most of their time hanging out inside the Achilles. The one time they could have made a difference was in the Relic mission. I had one still alive. If the Dreadknight had survived the tac would still have scored the Relic even though it was in enemy hands because in 7th Edition the Relic is merely an objective that can be picked up. Objective Secured would take precedence.

Offline hillshire

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Re: Adepticon Iron Hands
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2015, 03:39:17 AM »
60   2nd Forward Observation Team
Scout Squad (5 marines with bolt pistols and close combat weapons, Sergeant has Melta bombs)
45   
Land Speeder Storm (Cerberus Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Jamming Beacon, and IWND) - dedicated transport

60    5th Forward Observation Team
Scout Squad (5 marines with bolt pistols and close combat weapons, Sergeant has Melta bombs) in a
45
Land Speeder Storm (Cerberus Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Jamming Beacon, and IWND) - dedicated transport

I kitted them out as close combat Scouts which is both cheap and very handy. The LSS makes for a very mobile assault vehicle (easily crossing odd terrain and fitting into tight spaces) from which the Scouts can leap on any side. Compared to assault Death Stars or even competent assault units, Scouts are pretty tame. But 15 attacks on the charge will slip some wounds through on the tougher guys and chew up the weaker ones. And surprise many opponents who still consider Scouts little more than an annoying tax to their ďrealĒ units.

The Land Speeder Storm is great. Typically it works like so: LSS and friends arrive from Reserves and Outflank, usually on the side I want them to (2/3 chance). Use the heavy flamer and bolt pistols on some poor objective camper, sometimes scoring an Objective at the same time. If desired, the Scouts can hop out and assault next turn while the LSS zips off to use its Objective Secured status to score a different Objective. The LSS rarely gets to use its heavy flamer again because itís either using too much of its 30Ē range and/or jinking to stay alive. With only 2 HPs it wonít survive against dedicated fire. But with some lucky jinks it may weather the odd spare shot (because the focused fire is going elsewhere) and live to score another Objective. I think quite highly of them.

The Scouts did very well. This army is designed to play two games at the same time. The tanks and Legion of the Damned fight the battle while the Scouts and Land Speeder Storms score the objective. Naturally there was some overlap but thatís all to the better. Very flexible. And they did their job very well, often playing key parts in winning games. Some memorable moments:

Some Scouts are holding the center objective against Dark Eldar. Theyíre being lashed by shuriken fire but hunker down and survive to hold the objective. But massed fire is whittling them away until just one survives. Heís assaulted by some Dark Eldar thing with wings but kills it, denying them the objective. Others move up but are reluctant to charge. I think he was finally shot off the objective but I donít recall for sure.

Or another squad of Scouts fighting an Eldar Seer Council on a Skyshield Land Pad for 3 full turns before finally winning the combat as the Typhon rolls towards them to crush the Weapons of Vaul on the platform with them.

Or charging into Astorath and a squad of Death Company to tie them up for another turn so they couldnít rampage into our Centurions. They died bravely during the enemyís turn, thus leaving the Blood Angels open to massed fire again. A combination of grav-cannons and Thunderfire Cannons finished off Astorath and his last Death Company companion.

Offline hillshire

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Re: Adepticon Iron Hands
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2015, 03:08:56 AM »
Elites
180   The Loyal Dead of the Battle of Sarosh
5 Legion of the Damned Legionnaires (1 Multi-Melta, 1 Melta-gun, and the Sergeant has a Combi-melta & Powerfist)

I love Legion of the Damned. We all have a favorite unit or model which just works for us. And sometimes leaves your opponent wondering why you wasted the points on them. I get that a lot. Pretty much everyone agrees that they are a good unit but they also believe Iím investing too many points in a unit which melts away after around of shooting or assault. And theyíre not entirely wrong. But Iíve also seen that confidence fade into frustration as the Legionnaires refuse to die, tying up valuable resources as the Legionnaires move on to attack a new target. Because even one Legionnaire with a melta weapon or powerfist can completely destroy a vehicle or gradually chop through a squad of Marines.

They werenít perfect but they were effective. For all of the times they arrived by Deep Strike into a tight space (24 times once you include them going back into reserves), they only periled three times (twice going back into reserves and the other got placed in a far corner . . . where they marched back into battle gradually plinking a Wraithknight to death). And even then they didnít die. Most of the time their arrival meant a vehicle exploded. Pask is your Warlord in a Punisher? Legion of the Damned arrive and he dies. Although in that game over a 1000 points of Tau and Guard fired into them so they died a quick death.

In both Teams and Highlander I had only a single squad to work with. And they were great for killing stuff and grabbing objectives. But Legion of the Damned works best in pairs. A single squad isnít hard to focus down. Two are much harder to deal with. Also, a single squad can fail due to below average rolls (or even average ones if the target is making good saving throws). A pair is much more likely to fire the killing melta shot. I went with three so that the odds of at least two squads arriving on Turn 2 would be good. And it generally worked out that way.

Some might wonder, why the powerfist? 50 points for two powerfists is a lot for basically four S8 AP2 cc hits. And during play testing I tried Legion without them. Thing was it was too easy to tie them up in a slapfest of a combat where the enemy took 2 - 3 (and sometimes more!) turns to wear them down due to the Invul save but the Legionnaires couldnít hit hard enough to win the combat, just snipping off the odd marine here or there. With the powerfist they were at least able to score a couple of kills a turn to win the combat and chew through the enemy.

In Highlander I had mistakenly taken a second Land Speeder Storm (I had copy and pasted from my Championship without giving it a second thought) and had to drop it while finding a last minute replacement. I could have added two more Legionnaires for the 50 pts I freed up, bringing the Legion of the Damned squad up to seven men (ghosts?). That would have made them more durable although not a whole lot more effective (essentially 2-4 more bolter shots and 4 more S4 AP- cc strikes - not bad but not essential either). But I didnít because it would have made their Deep Strike foot print much larger. One of the nice things about the min size squad of 5 is that itís not hard to swing the other four around the central one to avoid bumping into things that would cause them to perils. I like using them as a surgical knife which can go exactly where I want them. And they usually do. Itís always amusing to see my opponent get a bit nervous (because itís a very risky DS) then a bit excited (anticipating a Mishap) concluding in surprise (dang, that actually worked!). In Highlander I actually took the Shield Eternal for my Master of the Forge instead. I already told that part of the story elsewhere but it worked out very well for me. Fortuitous really.

I realize Iím in the minority in the Legion of the Damned vs Drop Pod melta camp. And I certainly donít look down on anyone using Drop Pods. Particularly when you get a cheap Objective Secured AV12 vehicle nobody wants to waste shots blowing off the objective. Nonetheless, I highly recommend Legion of the Damned. They have been one of my most effective units. When they arrive, something dies. If they arenít focused down immediately, something else will die the next turn. Also, they look damned cool.

Offline hillshire

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Re: Adepticon Iron Hands
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2015, 10:19:00 PM »
Heavy Support
330   ďSanteri"
Land Raider Achilles (2 TL Multi-meltas, Thunderfire Cannon, immune to melta & lance, -1 to rolls on          the vehicle damage chart + IWND due to Iron Hands) w/Dozer Blade (re-roll Dangerous Terrain Tests).

The Achilles is interesting. The long range sniping ability of the Thunderfire Cannon is quite good. Itís also quite good for piling up wounds on blobs, even if they are in cover. It can even strip off hull points from light to medium armored vehicles in a pinch. Put it on a chassis as durable as the Achilles Land Raider and youíve got a powerful war machine right their. The odd part is the multi-meltas. They donít match the long range firepower of the Thunderfire Cannon. Indeed, they work best at very short ranges against vehicles. This can be helpful because Imperial Knights are reluctant to close within melta range so long as there are other credible threats on the board. But what youíd rather be doing is hanging back in your deployment zone blasting away with the Thunderfire Cannon. Lascannons would be a better match. Or maybe twin linked heavy bolters to help fend off the assault units coming in to smash up your newly painted tanks. Or better yet, twin linked assault cannons on each sponson. That could be interesting. One can dream.

In my Iron Hands army the Achilles is very multi-functional. Itís pretty durable and is tough to one-shot, making it perfect for protecting my warlord. Who returns the favor by making the Achilles even more durable with his 3+ repair rolls. This was helpful a few times but most of the time I failed both my IWND and repair rolls. Other times it was hull pointed out before I could even make the roll. With the Objective Secured tac squad inside it was great for objective camping in my deployment zone while sending four blast markers a turn down range. Itís nice knowing that nothing can hide from you on pretty much the entire board. You might not kill it but at least you can let them know you remembered them.

There are some disadvantages though. The comparatively short range of the multi-meltas for one. Perhaps I could have been aggressive with the Achilles and thatís something I should play test more thoroughly. On the other hand, that puts my Warlord at greater risk. And I already have plenty of melta to roam the battlefield in the form of the Legion of the Damned. The other disadvantage is the Achilles is not an assault vehicle. So, being more aggressive is not backed up by a small but dangerous assault unit. More importantly, in my mind, you canít use it to launch a counter assault if something arrives nearby. Nothing ruins you vehiclesí day more than being blown up by some schmuck with a melta bomb (which, despite its name, does not use the melta rule and therefore ceramite armor is not immune). As it is, all I can do is unload the tacs, do some light shooting, and hope they are enough a speed bump to take a few of the enemy with them while dying to a man gloriously so that I can get back to shooting them with heavy weapons.

The Achilles is very effective and I highly recommend it. At the same time Iím considering replacing it with a Spartan Assault Tank. That would enable me to counter assault or even aggressively assault, probably with Terminators, while still having a durable command vehicle. And 4 twin-linked lascannon shots are not too shabby although not as flexible as the Thunderfire Cannon. But with the Typhon around, Iíd still have good area effect shooting. Something to think about.

Offline hillshire

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Re: Adepticon Iron Hands
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2015, 03:33:51 AM »
230   ďAleksiĒ
Relic Sicaran Battle Tank - TL Accelerator Autocannon (S7, AP4, hvy 6, rending, rapid tracking - ignores jink),
 2 Lascannons, 1 Hvy Bolter, Ceramite (immune to melta), Dozer Blade (re-roll Dangerous Terrain Tests), IWND
Legacy of Glory: Battle of Sarosh - TL Accelerator gains Interceptor, Skyfire, Tank Hunters, & Night Vision once

The Sicaran is good all-rounder tank. I added the lascannons to give it more punch, particularly vs Imperial Knights and heavy tanks. So vs heavy armor or heavy infantry youíve got 2 lascannons backed up by the autocannon which has a decent chance of punching through AV13 or even AV14. Against light to mid infantry you can add in the heavy bolter and you end up with 11 mid to high strength shots pouring into the target.

I added the Battle of Sarosh Legacy of Glory to help deal with flyers. At the moment flyers seem less common but a Stormraven delivering chainfists straight into my tanks would certainly ruin my plans. The Battle of Saroh gave me the chance of clawing it out of the sky before it could even fire. And at 25 pts, itís not a bad price. The Battle of Sarosh rarely got called into play and even when it did, it wasnít one-shotting flyers during Adepticon. But it did strip off enough HPs to make finishing the flyer off much easier.

The only thing which keeps the Sicaran from being ďgreatĒ is that it only has 3 HP and AV12 side/rear. If your opponent focuses on it, itís not hard to make the Sicaran go away. And in the opening turns thatís likely to happen if they have the ability to get solid shot on it. Particularly when their other choices are AV14 hardened veterans like the Achilles and Typhon. I put ceramite armor on it so it wouldnít get one-and-doned by melta. But when you start piling on upgrades like I did, your looking at a 230 pt vehicle thatís only somewhat tougher than a dreadnought. But I think itís worth it. If there werenít the 0-1 limitation I have run a pair of them with no upgrades. Two vanilla would have been more effective than a single tougher, shootier one.

During Adepticon it was pretty much either the Sicaran went unscathed or blasted apart in a single turn. Putting it in cover boosted by the Techmarine helped a lot. I was particularly careful with the Sicaran. There were only a few times where I was able to try to ďhealĒ it with IWND.  Certainly it was fun pouring all of that firepower into a target. I jokingly referred to it as the ďdakka-boatĒ. I want a better nick-name for it though. Too orky, not Iron Hands enough.
In terms of the Sicaranís battlefield role, its main job was to use its long range fire power to focus down the biggest threats to my tanks. In the early stages of the game Iíd have it hunkered down in good cover. Once it was relatively ďsafeĒ it could use its Fast Vehicle ability to maneuver for better shots. Or at least, that was my plan. What really ended up happening is the Sicaran stayed hunkered down most of the time while the Typhon went charging off to terrorize the enemy. There were just too many weapons which could breach AV12 side armor to eliminate them all. Generally this worked out pretty well anyway since those 48Ē autocannon and lascannon shots could reach most of the board most of the time. So the Sicaran and Achilles could hang back and support each other while the Typhon, Legion of the Damned, and Scouts in Land Raider Storms took all the risks.

I love the Sicaran, highly recommended. Even without upgrades itís quite good. But Iíd at least take the Ceramite Armor so itís more resistant to being one-shotted by melta.