Author Topic: Vanguard, or Rangers?  (Read 4848 times)

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Offline TheMonkfish

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Vanguard, or Rangers?
« on: April 04, 2015, 04:57:27 PM »
Now so far this is based entirely on what we've seen in White Dwarf, but what do you guys think about the merits of the two Skitarii troop choices?
I think the Vanguard with 3 Arc Rifles and an Arc Pistol/Arc Maul Alpha can deal some nasty damage to vehicles to be honest.
For the Rangers, 3 Arquebus/Omnispex looks to be the way to go, and that's what I've built my box as.
Lets hear some input.

Offline ShadowcatX

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 09:30:04 PM »
I don't think I'd run groups of 10 vanguard. 5 vanguard in a drop pod with 2 rifles and a pistol is what, 130 for 5 haywire shots? Significantly better than scourges if you have fast attack drop pods. I think we'll see a lot of vanguard for that reason.

Not sure about the ranngers yet.
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Offline TheMonkfish

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 09:03:45 AM »
I can see the Plasma Caliver working well on Vanguard too, especially if the rumors of the formation giving you prefered enemy are true.
The Arquebus having Armourbane is a bit misleading tbh. Since it's only S4 against vehicles, it's kinda ineffective, but it's pretty mean against Marines at AP3.

Offline SittingInACorner

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 02:02:50 PM »
a ten man vanguard squad stock is a great anti infantry choice ive been rolling dice and they put out some serious fire power with those assault 3 guns. honestly it doesn't make sense to me to take anti tank rifles (especially haywire weapons) just so you can shoot them at tanks. you need up wasting good firepower. the plasma guns seem okay but are way over priced. if you give them the the BS buff of 7 and 6 they get to re roll their 1s so the plasma probably wont kill them but still its almost the cost of another whole squad (so pretty much 30 shots) I would stick to elite anti tank choices to kill heavy armor and use the vanguard as awesome anti infantry. the rangers seem to be too expensive for what they do. 20 shots with in 15 isnt bad but its not good and its not assault so your options are limited when it might count. I do see the vanguard in groups of 5 being run to kill vehicles and such but i still rather take a really good anti vehicle unit. (keep in mind all your units have scout so the 18" can be in range turn 1)

here is a theoretical list that i made yesterday for 1850 AM, Space marines and Skitarii

Combined arms detachment (primary): astra military: 635
HQ:
   Tank command squad: 375
leman russ executioner: 155
leman russ: 150
pask (in normal russ): 70 (warlord)
TROOPS:
   Infantry platoon: 130
command squad: 30
infantry squad: 50
infantry squad: 50
   Infantry platoon: 130
command squad: 30
infantry squad: 50
infantry squad: 50
Allied detachment: clan rukkan space marine: 645
HQ:
   librarian: 80
librarian: 65
mindforge staff: 15
TROOPS:
   tactical marines: 145
ten tactical marines: 140
melta bomb: 5
ELITES:
   Dreadnought: 110
Dreadnought: 100
heavy flamer: 10
HEAVY SUPPORT:
   stormraven gunship: 200
stormraven: 200
lascannon: 0
multi-melta: 0
FAST ATTACK:
   stormtalon gunship: 110
stormtalon gunship: 110
Allied detachment: skitarii: 570
TROOPS:
   skitarii vanguard: 100
10 vanguard: 100
    skitarii vanguard: 100
10 vanguard: 100
   skitarii vanguard: 100
10 vanguard: 100
HEAVY SUPPORT:
  onager dune crawler: 90
eradication beamer: 0
   onager dune crawler: 90
eradication beamer: 0
   onager dune crawler: 90
eradication beamer: 0
TOTAL: 1850

Offline TheMonkfish

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 03:41:51 PM »
The Onager is only 90 points then? That seems like a bit of a bargain tbh...you could take 3 in 500 points and get away with it.

Offline Packetboy

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 05:05:00 PM »
I didn't see much of the rules for the mechanicus, but with what I ear and the look the fig have. I know I will pick so to go along my imperial guard.
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Offline TheMonkfish

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 09:09:45 PM »
I didn't see much of the rules for the mechanicus, but with what I ear and the look the fig have. I know I will pick so to go along my imperial guard.

Yeah, I feel like these guys will be great as allies alongside other Imperial forces to shore up any weaknesses you have, since they have access to cheap and efficient anti-armour and some nasty anti-infantry weapons too.

Offline Sadclown

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2015, 12:05:13 PM »
i was thinking more along the lines of MSU vanguard with 2 arc rifles, arc pistol and data-tether. I would take four to five of those in the skitarii detachment to get them scout.  The rest I wild take naked. 

Offline TheMonkfish

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 04:14:48 PM »
The Omnispex is a pretty nice piece of kit too tbh, what with the load of vehicles that can get cover saves now, it makes the Arc Rifles a bit more reliable.

Offline ShadowcatX

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 07:08:29 PM »
I  agree withTMF, ignores cover is going to be pretty good. Maybe 4 boxes, 2 MSU units of arc rifle / arc pistol vanguard, and 3 full units if you want them. Stupid 1 arc rifle per box...
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Offline TheMonkfish

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 02:23:30 PM »
The 'one of each special' thing in a box is really annoying...I had to swap off my Caliver to get a 2nd Arquebus, and if I wanted a 3rd one I'd need to either trade or buy another box...

Offline Sadclown

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2015, 01:55:24 AM »
Wow that really stinks. Once I'm able to start the army, I would go with three minimum squads of vanguard with arc rifles, two squads of rangers with three sniper rifles, and two naked squads of vanguards. All the infantry would have on omnispex.  I'd also get 2 squadrons with three dragoons with the phosphor lumigens.  Combo'ed with the omnispex, the dragooons would have cumulative -2 on cover saves.  I haven't really worked he pints out at the moment just going of the top of my head.


« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 03:19:07 AM by Sadclown »

Offline TheMonkfish

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2015, 06:23:32 PM »
Some of the Relics also work quite well with the squads. The Pater Radium on a Vanguard Alpha is nasty - making enemies locked in combat take toughness tests at -1 or suffer D6 wounds with no armour saves. There's also a Range 6" Phosphor Blast Pistol with 3+ Poisoned, AP2, and if you hit once, it causes 3 hits, and a Servo Skull that causes Haywire hits on all enemy vehicles within D6+Turn Number inches once per game.

Offline ShadowcatX

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Re: Vanguard, or Rangers?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2015, 08:20:12 AM »
Mathhammered out the vanguard is better at killing meqs than rangers and cost less. OTOH AP 4 is nice. I think if you are going min squads with special weapons vanguard are the obvious choice.
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