Author Topic: 1850 Ideas  (Read 744 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Exalted of the First Host

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
1850 Ideas
« on: April 11, 2016, 11:16:17 AM »
So I was toying around with some lists and I came up with this. Let me know what you think and any questions you might have.

CAD
HQ
-Chaos Lord, Juggernaught, Goredrinker/Lightning Claw, Sigil, Metla Bombs and Ichor blood. (I had 5 points)

Troops
-MSU Cultists
-MSU Cultists

Fast Attack
-MSU Raptors, 2x Melta
-MSU Raptors, 2x Melta
-5x Chaos Spawn

Heavy Support
-Soul Grinder, Phlegm
-Soul Grinder, Phlegm

Formation Detachment
-Gorepack
--MSU Bikers, 1x Melta, Melta Bombs
--MSU Bikers, 1x Melta, Melta Bombs
--MSU Bikers, 1x Melta, Melta Bombs
--10x Flesh Hounds
--5x Flesh Hounds (This is all the hounds I have right now but I ordered 10 more recently)

Allied Detachment, Crimson Slaughter CSM
HQ
- Sorcerer, Mastery lvl 3, Bike, Prophet of the Voices, Daemonheart, Power Fist, Melta Bombs, Bolt Pistol.
Troops
-MSU Cutlists
10 wounds, 10 saves, 10 1's, One epic misfire.

Offline cgseahawker

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Re: 1850 Ideas
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2016, 06:38:19 AM »
Before I reply to this with misguided feedback, let me ask you this: what is it you want to do with this list? Is this to be competitive, or for more casual games?

-Rich

Offline Exalted of the First Host

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: 1850 Ideas
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2016, 08:01:31 AM »
I was trying to build something a little more competitive but different than what I usually take.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 08:30:53 AM by Exalted of the First Host »
10 wounds, 10 saves, 10 1's, One epic misfire.

Offline cgseahawker

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Re: 1850 Ideas
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2016, 03:40:32 AM »
Understood, and with that in mind here is what I see...and this is solely from a competitive approach (if you're really into Raptors and the visual/narrative of them crashing/dashing forward, then go with them). Issue number one is the foot slogging MSU cultist units x3. I'm sure you put them in here for their points efficiency, as well as their ability to hold backfield objectives, but here's the problem: they are just too slow compared to the rest of your army, and you really shouldn't place any objectives in a deployment zone playing this army to begin with. Place your objectives in the center of the board (left and right center-line after that), and plan on holding those turn 5. Tournaments are not going to use TAC cards, so you need to focus on holding objectives at the end...every other turn you are racing forward and grabbing victims for your melee. If you find you have one in your deployment zone...ignore it and move forward...you won't get it, but neither will your opponent, lest he divide his forces and deep strikes on it, in which case you're going to hold all the mid-field and enemy deployment zone objectives because he split up. If things go well, you'll hold three at least, and he'll hold two (the one's in his DZ). That means you've got LB, STW...and he'll have FB (probably) and hopefully that's it. This is presumptuous, but achievable.

The second issue (and again this is really only from a competitive approach) is the durability of Raptors. Any sound player will focus on shooting what they can kill entirely, or at least effectively neutralize (which will mean killing your 5 Raptors to a man if you place the MG in the rear as you move up...which you will), and in this meta that means 5 marines are really not hard to take down. That's a lot of points wrapped up in two units that will be targeted/killed turn one. That drops two valuable AV options, given your Bike units only have one AV shot each...so some will miss, thus wasting their firing potential for a full turn...with turn one rendering them largely ineffective. Consider giving your bikes an extra MG...and maybe the SGT a combi-MG. Their T5 will bode well against most shooting, thus making them a better fit for AV/close quarters fighting. If you really like Raptors, then I'd most certainly deep strike them behind the enemy, but that means you've done your opponent a favor in turn one by refining their shooting priority.

I know this is worded a little blunt, I just hope its received as intended. You gave me some solid feedback, and I'm just trying to return the favor. Hopefully if nothing else this gives you something to weigh on when building/designing your next army list. Best of luck, and Slay the Warlord! Cheers!

-Rich

Offline Exalted of the First Host

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: 1850 Ideas
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2016, 09:07:03 AM »
Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it! I had a couple play test games and refined my list a little, (namely added more fleshhounds) but before I get into that I have a few comments on what you said. First off, the objectives, my store only plays the ITC missions and most of them require you to place objectives either in your deployment zone or your opponent does or something like that, which forces me to have to keep something back i.e. the cultists because they are cheap ob sec. Secondly, the raptors, you said deep striking on turn one, did you mean turn two? because that's why I thought the raptors would work, deep striking in the same turn that all my army is getting into combat, they can pop transports allowing my hounds etc. to charge the squishy stuff inside.
Anyways my new list is this
CAD 1850 pts
Juggerlord: Goredrinker/LC, Sigil, Melta Bombs

Troops:
Cultists msu
Cultists msu

Fast Attack
1x Chaos Spawn
1x Chaos Spawn
1x Chaos Spawn

Heavy Support:
Soul Grinder Phlegm
Soul Grinder Phlegm

LOW
Chaos Knight Paladin

Formation Detachment
Gorepack
MSU Bikers, Metlagun Melta Bomb
MSU Bikers, Metlagun Melta Bomb
MSU Bikers, Metlagun Melta Bomb
5x Flesh Hounds
5x Flesh Hounds
5x Flesh Hounds
10x Flesh Hounds

The Knight and big group of flesh hounds with the Juggerlord deploy in the middle of the table flanked by the Soul grinders. I have the Bikes wherever I can set them up against vehicles while trying to still be in cover. The flesh hounds and Spawn deploy on the flanks to terrorize stuff and basically being scary. The spawn is a cheap, fast, blood tithe point that can actually do some work if it makes it to combat, which it will some of the time because of the flesh hounds will be scouting forward, putting a big threat in your opponents face. Along with the knight marching up the table along with the two grinders it allows me to split my opponents force by effectively "spearheading" their center line. Or at least in theory it will. Only had a chance to play it once so far but it went really well. It was actually really dirty what I did with the Knight. My opponent had an infantry killing deathstar that ate through my entire unit of 10 hounds in a single turn and knocked one wound of the Juggerlord. So I charged the knight into the combat and because the Juggerlord was in a challenge EVERYTHING he had besides the one character in the challenge had to attack the knight.... and they couldn't hurt it. But because he was Zealot he couldn't use the "Our weapons are useless!" rule. That aside, What do you think?
10 wounds, 10 saves, 10 1's, One epic misfire.

Offline cgseahawker

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
Re: 1850 Ideas
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2016, 09:40:23 AM »
With the Raptors comment, no, I didn't mean turn one DS, but perhaps my wording was a bit unclear. What I meant was that with less units on the table turn one, you give your opponent an advantage in that they have a more focused list of targets to shoot at, and a more refined selection of units to prioritize their shooting into. Does this make sense? I find its best to either DS the entire army, or none at all. Just my two cents. Cheers!

-Rich

Offline Exalted of the First Host

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 155
    • View Profile
Re: 1850 Ideas
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2016, 09:52:21 AM »
Ok, yes that makes sense, Thank you for clarifying!
10 wounds, 10 saves, 10 1's, One epic misfire.