Author Topic: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?  (Read 4319 times)

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Offline Alfalpharius

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2016, 01:17:31 AM »
No Batreps, but so far- running a CAD with extra squads of snipers/shotgunners in a furor formation seems to work a lot better.

Offline Nodsarmy

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2016, 04:48:55 PM »
Hillshire how is it your giving marines weapons like frag cannons and shotgun etc and somehow keeping the Spec ammo bolters?

Offline Mr. Sinji

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2016, 07:54:51 PM »
The special and heavy weapons replace the bolter.

You then replace the close combat weapon for a bolter for free.

I have been having success with melta/bolter & shotgun/bolter combo.

You can choose to either rapid fire and not assault or move,shoot and assault with assault weapons.

Offline Nodsarmy

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2016, 05:02:37 AM »
Thanks Sinji, reading your reply made me remember that this is something i have seen and asked about in the past with i think sternguard.

I should keep it in mind now though as i am building a small deathwatch army.

So far i have the Watch master, Termy Cap, 5Vanguard, 5Termies, 5Bikes and 20Vets.

Even with the same numbers i have, i haven't even started as i can't decide how to equip my Vets. I do want to try make use of the new weapons so i'll probably make a shotgun / bolter team with maybe a flamer termy.

I do want to maybe try bolter / stalker bolter combo the hellfire i think this would be good with the stalker 2shots 2+ to wound with rending and the 6" extra range, and if i need to run i can swap back to the normal bolter i'll maybe add in a termy with cyclone missiles.

I want to have some frag cannons and infernus heavy bolters but can't decide weather to go 4 in each or 2 in each squad.

I had thought 2 infernus HBs 2Vets with s/s and Lclaw and the blackshield with 2 power weapons or the heavy TH, but it depends on the special rule he has when do you double the attacks, double the profile or double after charge attacks and extra weapons are counted, so would the BS get 6 or 8 attacks with say 2 swords ? I'd probably add in 2 vanguard vets here maybe HTHammers or my usual claw/fist.

With frag cannons i may go for 4 give the 5th guy a s/s and then add in 3 bikes to get split fire jink and move through cover.

Strangly i can't seem to find where the watch master goes unless you take a CAD or the Black spear so he might not get much game time, but when it come to the strategium command team if i add my captain and a kill team to get 6+ Fnp does the team lose its other re=roll to wound benefits ?

Offline Mr. Sinji

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2016, 06:38:23 PM »
I would also suggest some Melta as it is still the best AT weapon that they have access to.

Offline hillshire

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2016, 07:22:45 PM »
Hey guys, sorry it's been a while. I've been playing concerts, making mini movies with the kids, and painting Deathwatch.

I've played 3 practice games with them. Basically, I was running Deathwatch CAD + Skyhammer with Librarius Conclave. I played against Chaos Space Marines (W), Khorne Daemonkin (L), and something which I forget (L). Basically, I came to the conclusion that LibCon was doing nothing for me so I dropped it from the list and replaced it with an Imperial Knight Crusader.

Then 5 tournament games in Warzone Atlanta. I won my bracket with them and placed in the top third over all in battle points, winning 3 out of 5 games. I played Dark Eldar (W), Renegades with tons of artillery and zombies (L), Ravenwing with 2 Dark Shrouds (L), Eldar with all the trickery (W), and Ultramarines Battle Company with all the ObSec (W). All of my opponents were sharp players with a good command of the rules and their armies. Each game was very tactical with the balancing shifting as the game went on, sometimes several times.

Warzone is a great tournament, probably the most luxurious event in 40k. Catered lunch with excellent food. Drink girls roaming the room to bring you drinks. Each table is separate with two chairs. Comfortable room which never got hot or smelly. Good atmosphere, very well organized. Plenty of prize support.

Some observations in no particular order.

I never once remembered to use my Deathwatch Mission Tactics. I finally remembered to declare them in the last game but forgot to use them after that.

The Knight only died once over those 5 games in the last game. I reserved it to avoid drop melta. Dodged one drop pod but the second drop pod came in after the Knight did and blew it up after it failed to kill a single unit (some of the worst shooting ever). On a side note, I think it's kind of impressive that I was able to win that game with basically two dev squads, two assault squads, and two Deathwatch Veteran squads. Against Battle Company in an objective heavy mission. Basically, I won progressive kill points which gave me the win.

I was mistaken about using the Beacon Angelis to pull over a unit Turn 1 after arriving via drop pod. According to the tournament judges, since that occurs at the start of the turn, it would be before movement. So, that particular bit of trickery has been invalidated and I'll have to rewrite my posts about it when I get time again.

In fact, I never did get to pull over the other Deathwatch squad. Wouldn't have helped in any of the games. So, no new insights there.

The Beacon was essential for guiding in other units though. I was able to set up and mass units in ways which surprised but didn't delight my opponents. Particularly a couple who thought they had successfully blocked me out of position. Even without the Turn 1 pull, it's well worth its points.

Frag cannons are brutal vs infantry. I was running three per squad. Best showing was completely killing 2 squads of marines and a Razorback behind them in one round of shooting. But, they need cover and support. Otherwise, you're leaving them exposed to return fire. They're too expensive to trade unit for unit.

They're also quite good at punching holes through vehicles.

They are not much good vs gargantuan creatures. In fact, they're quite insufficient. You really need a gravcannon unit or two for those.

Sorry, there's more to say but I'm falling asleep in my chair typing. Been a long week, gotta catch some zs.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 07:29:51 PM by hillshire »

Offline hillshire

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2016, 08:34:10 PM »
A few more observations.

At the moment, I don't feel like stormshields are worth the points on a shooty unit so long as you can make good use of cover. Almost all of the shooting headed their way lacked AP3 or better so the 3++ didn't matter. For my next list, I've dropped the stormshields for additional gear.

Having a balance of bolters and frag cannons is a good idea, the frag cannons can deal most of the damage while the bolters clean up any strays. For example, in one game, the templates couldn't quite reach the fifth man in the squad so my opponent declared they were safe. Until rapid fire bolters opened up and tagged the last marine out. Yay special ammo!

With good cover, Deathwatch held up better to enemy fire than expected. Even after hails of Dark Eldar and Battle company small arms and heavy weapons fire, there were still some frag cannons left to deal damage.

The Veterans need support. Left to themselves, it's not hard to overwhelm them and they're too expensive per squad to trade unit for unit with most other armies.

I don't really see the need for four frag cannons. 6 templates with rending has been quite sufficient. 6 shots at S9 AP2 will take out most vehicles. But that's not enough to take out Wraithknights and the like. Which is where I really think it's bet to ally in some grave cannons. 3 grav cannons should be more than enough to take out a Wraithknight. Grav and Frag cannons compliment each other quite well

Offline rasmusnicolaj

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2016, 12:49:41 AM »
It's a shame DW can't take grav. Apparently they forget how to when transfering from their original chapter...  :o

/Rasmus
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Offline Mr. Sinji

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2016, 11:53:07 PM »
I have to agree with the 3 Frag Cannons over the 4. I find that 4 seems to be a touch of over kill and the points end up getting waisted also it gives you 2 guys to out up front to soak wounds.

I have been running my squads as follows.

T- Veterans
1x Watch Sergeant, Bolter, Shotgun & Auspex
4x Veterans, Melta-gun, Bolter
3x Veterans, Deathwatch Frag Cannon
2x Veterans, Bolter & Shotgun
1x Drop Pod, Storm Bolter
375pts

I have been combat squading them into 2 squads. 1 squad has the 4 meltas and the Watch Sergeant. The other squad has the 3 Frag Cannons and the 2 Bolter/Shotgun guys.

The Watch Sergeants main role is reduce the cover save of jinking skimmers to give the meltas a better chance. Being able to re-roll 1's to hit has actually made them quite accurate so I typically land a few good hits.

The Frag Cannon team is great for nuking the guys from inside a transport or finishing off a transport or even blasting away another transport or other big nasty.

I am still optimizing the squad but so far it is operating quite well. So far I have been have good success runnig  2 of these and I will adding in a 3rd soon.

I am still trying to get a good balance with my HQ and his squad though. I am probably going to go with a combat unit that can put out good support fire when they enter play. I would like try out running 4 guys with combi-melta and storm sheild with a Black Sheild with Power Fist and Storm Sheild They will be accompanied by a Watch Master.

Online Lord Mogerleigh

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2017, 10:03:04 PM »
I know this is an older post... but I gotta say... there's some fantastic insights here. Thanks for sharing. I've started collecting a deathwatch army and this will help
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Offline Mr. Sinji

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Re: Deathwatch Tactica - The First Question: CAD or Formations?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2017, 06:03:06 PM »
Since this thread has started I have changed my squads around quite a bit due to optimization and FAQ's etc.

This is how my 2 builds look these days.

T- Deathwatch Veterans
4x Veterans Deathwatch Frag Cannon
6x Veterans Boltgun & CC Weapon
-Drop Pod, Storm Bolter
355pts

T- Deathwatch Veterans
2x Veterans Deathwatch Frag Cannon
3x Veterans Combi-Melta & DW Shotgun
-Drop Pod, Storm Bolter
225pts

Anything else it tooled up to fit the points limit but the squads above make up the core of the army. I like at least 1 of the big sqaud and 2 of the smaller squads but if I can get more big sqauds I absolutely will put them in.