Author Topic: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?  (Read 3256 times)

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Online Nightwing7x

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What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« on: October 09, 2016, 03:31:27 PM »
Hello once again everyone, as per usual another question. This time I would like to pose the question of if you could make a change to DA what would it be?

Personally I think I am stuck between, changing our special characters, warlord traits, or giving a little bit of love back to our terminators.

To go more into detail with this for special characters I would change the set warlord traits we have for them because some like Amodia's and Belial's just infuriate me. After this probably change Asmodia so that there is a reason to be taking him over a normal Interrogator like make his blades ap 3, making them 2 I feel would be pushing it. Then drop the points on someone like Belial for gods sake 190 is a bit too high for what he does. Next I would give Ezekiel a benefit for using Interromancy. Then add in a named greenwing Captain, yes arguably we have Azrael but he is the Chapter Master not a Company Master, or maybe a named vanilla Chaplain, everytime I look at their entries in the codex I always find myself asking for a named version of either. Lastly for this category and this part may just be me nit picking but give Azrael's sword ap 2, after reading The Unforgiven (SPOILERS) when Azreal fights typhus and his terminator bodyguard Azrael literally is chopping through their armor(SPOILERS are over now)...menaning an ap 3 sword on the table top thanks gw. Hell or give Azrael Eternal Warrior, yes he is a support character, but to me Calgar has the same abilities of Ld10 for his detatchment and picks his warlord triat, granted he does not give a +1 to sieze, 4++, adamantium will and fear to his unit but he gives another tactical docterine, which again this could just be me nit picking (nor am I trying to make Azrael the Spiritual Liege of the DA and their successors but he kinda already is to a degree).

Onto the warlord traits this is something I have been thinking of for a bit actually, immediately there should be a change to the set warlord traits some characters have (Belial and Asmodia). The hunt does not appear to be a bad warlord trait if combined with something like the Lion's Roar, but other than that I cannot think of a case where ignores cover shooting attacks is good on my warlord. If they were to rewrite any traits honestly I think the hunt should be the only one to change, as every other one has use to it, maybe make the hunt something like Asmodia's Master of Repentance, but change Master of Repentance to every time someone is killed in a challenge by him not just the warlord, then make The Hunt the current Master of Repentance rule so warlord kill in a challenge = victory points. This way Belial and Asmodia can have a lot more use as a warlord.

Finally lets give some love to the Deathwing. the only real change I would make to them is give them the ability to deepstrike turn one. HOWEVER let them keep the ability to chose the turn they arrive with the Deathwing Redemption Force, and the Deathwing Strike Force to keep synergy with the Ravenwing. This way you can actually make use of those teleport homers on them.

I would love to hear your guys opinions on the matter, I know this was long but please bear in mind these are just my opinions, so feel free to disagree and let me know if I am going overboard with any of this :D
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Offline Tobas DA

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2016, 01:07:28 AM »
I agree with your list.

DA as such are OK, for me 90% would be minor (to medium) tweaks, or general rule changes (not DA exclusive).

My list (random order):
- warlord traits
- named characters
- terminators!
- plasma
- interromancy
- "chapter tactics"

Offline Tobas DA

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2016, 01:43:26 AM »
Warlord Traits:

2-4-5-6 are absolutely fine.

3- for the lion could be changed to a more general (also defensive) close combat ability. Furious charge is OK, but more a Blood Angels thing.

1- the hunt is very bad written! It is useless 90% of the time especially with Belial and Asmodai. DA are (should be) a synergy chapter, all other warlord traits reflect this. "The warlord and his unit...; The warlord and all DA units within 12"..."

The hunt means, the warlord is specialized in hunting the fallen and the traitors can not hide, not in a unit nor in the shadows of cover.

I would change to:
"The warlord and his unit has the precision strike and precision shot special rule, further all shooting attacks reduce the targets cover save by 1."   

I don´t like the ignores cover (all or nothing) rule and it would be OP in this case. I think this would be a useful, fluffy and balanced warlord trait.

Online Nightwing7x

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2016, 02:32:39 PM »
That too would be an interesting mix up however my only question being in your list you mentioned you would change interromancy. To me that has been one of the strongest things about us is our psychic powers. What would you change about them?
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Offline Tobas DA

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 02:03:52 AM »
Hello Nightwing7x,

I planed on commenting my list in the next days, if I have more time.


Offline Tobas DA

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2016, 02:17:44 AM »
Interromancy:

I don´t have the English rulebook. Maybe you can post the englisch terms for Interromancy, to make further discussion easier.

PP: Geistschinder
1: Saat der Furcht
2: Rechtschaffene Abscheu
3: Fluch des Grauens
4: Mahlstrom des Leids
5: Trepanation
6: Geistlöschung

Online Nightwing7x

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2016, 06:37:04 PM »
No problem the English terms for the interromancy powers are as follows:

Primarus: Mind Worm
1. Seed of Fear
2. Righteous Repugnance
3. Aversion
4. Maelstrom of Misery
5. Trephination
6. Mind Wipe

hope this helps.
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Offline Tobas DA

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2016, 04:40:24 AM »
Interromancy:

Fluff: Witch-fires should be focused (snipe the fallen), maledictions should be leadership based/ weaken enemy mind (interrogation), blessings should be defensive (stubborn, hold at any cost)

PP. Mind worm is OK, but could be 18" like almost all witch fires. And to many layers, get it off, not blocked, to hit, to wound, fail invul. save, fail feel no pain. 

1. Seed of Fear is OK, but why malediction 9" bubble. 3D6 on all enemy leadership tests would be great, not only fear-, moral- and pinning tests. Situational, you will need to bring the librarian very close, no effect against fearless units.

2. Righteous Repugnance is OK, could be +1 attack in first round of combat (also defensive)

3. Aversion is the best power (malediction, 24", target unit can only snap fire, WC 1). Very useful and reliable.

4. Maelstrom of Misery, I dislike this (witch-fire, small blast S1 AP2, wounds on 4+, WC 2), very situational (bunched up terminators without storm shields in the open) and unreliable.

5. Trephination, I strongly dislike this (focused witch fire, 2D6+2 against leadership, WC 2) very weak psychic shriek that can kill maximum 1 model no synergy with Seed of Fear.

6. Mind Wipe OK, WC 3 is too much, unreliable. What it does is reduce enemy BS to 1 for 1 turn (same as Aversion for WC 1, but weaker BS 1 is better than only snap-fire) and WS to 1, with a small chance to make it permanent. No synergy with Seed of Fear. Could be great if the effect lasts longer (lets say for D3 turns) or the leadership test to make it permanent could be de-buffed with Seed of Fear.

The general problem with focused witch-fire is: it can only effect 1 model not a unit. And you need 1 more warp charge to make it focused (WC 2 you need 3). A viable target for mind worm (independent character) can look out sir. A focused witch fires with WC 2 is not good.

Summary: In my opinion only Aversion is excellent, Maelstrom of Misery and Trephination are not good, the other powers are OK.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 04:48:15 AM by Tobas DA »

Online Nightwing7x

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2016, 07:32:42 AM »
I can see where you are coming from with this and agree on most of it. However I find this interesting as some of the powers you think are ok I normally find to be the best.

Right of the bat I almost entirely agree with you on the idea to change mind worm so that no saves of any kind can be taken against it, not even feel no pain, I feel for a PP would be far to powerful especially for only warp charge 1. If this change were to be made then I think they should still allow feel no pain and keep the 12"(remember our conclave can make it 24") and warp charge 1 for balance purposes because as it stands it is like you said a focused witchfire meaning its essentially warp charge 2, and for that many charges it would be much more worth it.

Next seed of fear. OHHHHHH boy this power I do not like and completely agree with your ideas to change it, make it so that it is for all leadership tests. My own personal spin on this would be that if the unit is fearless that it removes fearless instead of making them take the leadership test on 3D6.

Subsequently is Righteous Repugnance this is...ok while it is a very good power no doubt in my mind I just have never gotten any real use from it, but that is just because of my local meta. The only time this would be good for me would be with Knights (both Deathwing and Ravenwing) or an Assault Squad, however I never roll this power with them for whatever reason. Your idea is very good but maybe give them counter attack as well as rage.

After this we come to our favorite power aversion, this power is so good I cannot tell you just how many times I have stop the wrath of a full grav centurion squad with this and then stuck them in close combat.

Maelstrom of Misery, this power I have never found appealing, I cannot think of a single time this has ever helped me, this once again is due to my local meta however, but on paper it seems like a very good power.

Up next is Trephination this power is another favorite of mine esspecially for when I use the warlord traits table in the rule book (do not ask me why but I always tend to roll a 2 for my trait no matter what set of traits I am using or army) and roll for Command traits getting 2 meaning all enemies within 12" of the Warlord (aka my librarian) must take ALL LEADERSHIP TESTS with the lowest leadership in each squad, combine this with our PP and your friends will hate you. Because remember Mind Worm is 12" and this trait has a 12" bubble to it.

Finally we come to Mind Worm, this power has saved me time after time after time. I love this power no getting around it, because of the aforementioned warlord trait on Command it can now combo with mind worm. However I do 100% agree with you that this power should have more synergy with Mind Worm off the bat and Seed of Fear.
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Offline Tobas DA

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2016, 08:25:43 AM »
Your idea is very good but maybe give them counter attack as well as rage.

That is exactly what I wanted to write  :), did not know the English word for the "rage" special rule (in the German rule book it is Berserker)

But it might be dangerous, same as mark of khorne  ;)

Offline Tobas DA

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2016, 07:56:12 AM »
Terminators

General comment: If you do a wish list for your army it might be over the top (OP). I´m not talking about to adjust points. 175 points might be to cheap, Deathwing is 200 points (+5 points more expensive than before, 200/220).

This is how Terminators (all Terminators) should play:

Terminator Armor
- Save 2+, 5++
- T+1, T4 is too weak against dakka (S3 attacks). Terminators should be more survivable than a Space Marine Bikes. Marine T4, 3+, Bike T5, 3+; Terminator T5, 2+. A Tau commander gets T+1 (iridium armor, T5)
- can overrun: I+D3, Terminators move 6" and can run (same as power armor Space Marine), why should they not sweeping advance? A clumsy Cybot can. For fluff give them I+D3 (also to Cybots...)
- Needs more dakka, give the Storm Bolter a "rapid fire rule": 24" assault 2, 12" assault 3.
- ability to buy a frag grenade harness (like cataphractii) 
- ability to buy a 4++ upgrade

Dark Angels specific:
- vengeful strike: On turn of deepstriking either: fire all weapons as twin linked or do a uncoordinated assault (like Blood Angels in Angels Blade).

Everyone knows, that Terminator are too weak (maybe except for TH/SSH). For Dark Angels it is frustrating, that you can not play Deathwing but Ravenwing is "OP". Ravenwing should support the Hammer of Deathwing.



« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 08:11:18 AM by Tobas DA »

Online Nightwing7x

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2016, 12:26:22 PM »
I honestly could not agree more with you terminators are week and die very quick because its not hard to get your hands on an ap 2 weapon in this edition. Terminators need a buff and I think it would be welcome in the form of T5. The DA specific one you also bring up is great too.
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Offline SierraAlphaKilo

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2016, 01:45:56 PM »
Deathwing Terminators / Knights get 2 wounds like GK Paladins. Makes no sense to me that the chapter known for its terminators are weaker than Grey Knights.

Offline SidjostromPrimarch DCLXVI

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2016, 03:11:44 AM »
To be fair the Grey Knights in the fluff are meant to be a lot better than regular space marines.
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Offline Charley359

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Re: What is one change you would make to DA if given the chance?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2016, 03:37:03 PM »
I'll comment more when I feel better, but the one thing that I can think of and haven't seen.

DA needs to be able to use plasma weapons without being required to roll the Gets Hot dice roll.