Author Topic: How do we control the middle of the board?  (Read 2264 times)

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Offline thesustainablecenter

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How do we control the middle of the board?
« on: August 20, 2013, 09:21:03 PM »
So I'm making my list for BFS GT, going IG primary with tons of troops:
50 man stubborn lob, 4x10 vets w/ 3 plasma, 30 guys behind a wall with autocannons, 2 vendettas, defense line quad qun, the usual...

But I'm looking at the army and thinking about how I'm going to get control of the middle of the board? I can hopefully hold my objectives, but I have no way to threaten objectives on my opponents side of the board. So I'm stuck fighting for the middle objectives but even with moving up a full blob and 40 vets with all that plasma I don't feel I'll ahve anything left to hold those critical mid-field objectives.

Any thoughts on a good ally choice or an addition for the guard?

Online Fritz40K

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Re: How do we control the middle of the board?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 10:26:54 AM »
Awesome on the BFS GT- see you there, and maybe the odds will put us against each other- I'm bringing Tyranids.

IMHO blob guard is the way to control the center of the table, either that or cultist spam.

What do you have that could weaken your opponent's stuff so they won't be able to take mid field away from your blob. Flyers with dudes inside could also drop off to get opponent's deployment zone objectives.

I also wonder about hell hounds and flamer like tanks- not that I have any inside knowledge about the sign ups for the events, but if blobs are popular, which they are flushing them out with flamers could be huge...
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Offline Rick17126

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Re: How do we control the middle of the board?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 11:07:16 AM »
My guess is that you have around 500 points left?
Sticking with IG, some points to consider.

Chimeras (for vets squads) will give them additional mobility, protection and fire support,  helping you project further down field faster (also remember that 5 of the occupants may fire out of it, ie. 3 plasma and 2 lasguns).

Artillery (like a Basilisk) will allow you to blast targets all over the board, giving you fire support for advancing troops,  are a threat all over the board and act like a high strength anti-vehicular weapon with superior penetration (remember that Ordinance gains melta like penetration).

So my quick idea would be to take Chimera x2 for 2 of your vet squads (ones not riding in vendettas), add Basilisk x2 for dropping pie plates,  then add a squad to the wall blob which would leave you with 40pts to play with for special weapons, heavy weapons or other gear (for example with autocannons x2 and melta x2 or flamers x8, for blobs to gain some bite).

Since your not scraping for FOC slots in FA or HS you have no need to squadron so split the pairs so that the each unit can do it's own thing (in this case it's to your advantage to use more FOC slots due to the squadron rules).

You can split infantry squads out of blobs (in my example the ones with autocannon and melta) prior to deployment to provide security (cover from flankers and deepstrikers)  for your artillery which does not need to be behind the wall, but should be hiding somewhere, since your effectively trading -3" scatter for not being shot at.

 





Offline thesustainablecenter

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Re: How do we control the middle of the board?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 04:16:49 PM »
I used to run a Chimera for each of the vets that I took, for a total of 4. But I figured with the vehicle is dead mentality that they were old news. I also put my platoon command squads in the vendettas with 4 flamers each to jump out and roast backfield soft targets, and then they scored to boot.

I guess I should consider putting some Chimera's back in there. I've already got the blob decked out with power axes, 5 flamers and meltabombs to take on any foe.

Offline Rick17126

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Re: How do we control the middle of the board?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 06:27:47 PM »
I like vets in the vendettas, you lose one special weapon spot but gain 5 bodies to soak up wounds (similar reasoning to not running split squads of marines) and put other vet squads in chimeras to roll up the field.

I keep the CCS  sitting by the quad so the commander can shoot (if I don't have a better character manning it). I keep my PCS relatively close to the blobs so I can make use of orders (since some of them can be rage inducing).

Blobs have their own flamers and PCS are loaded with special weapons (usually sniper rifles or flamers), Vets with special weapons get plasma or melta (plasma for the chimeras, melta for the vendettas) and the CCS I usually use is maxed out with advisers (good for messing up the other guys plans with the additional benefit of being "characters"), bodyguards and plasma.

When I play IG, I rarely play without artillery (it's a hammer and everything else looks like a nail) when I don't play IG it's usually near the top of the priority list (I've been pounded to often to ignore it).

With your blobs you may want to try priests, so your 50 man blob would contain a commissar, priest, 5 sergeants w/ axes and 5 flamers = Stubborn blob that rerolls HtH misses on the charge for 410pts. 


Offline thesustainablecenter

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Re: How do we control the middle of the board?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 06:44:32 PM »
Well for advisors I neglect them as I dont want my flyers coming before my opponent. Master of ordnance might be the only worthwhile one.

The priest is a good idea but shooting over watch when charged is worth more than charging. Force your opponent to waste their turn and get shot twice as much.

Offline Rick17126

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Re: How do we control the middle of the board?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 05:57:04 PM »
Well for advisors I neglect them as I don't want my flyers coming before my opponent. Master of ordnance might be the only worthwhile one.
This is an issue, hopefully they will add the wording "may be used" the effect and/or change to the (+1 or -1) modifier some other units with reserve roll altering effects have. For me, it's been hit or miss, with a few more hits than misses with the MoF delay. On more than one of occasion the modifier has delayed deployment of assets that would hurt far more if they come on the board together (such as 2 Dakka Jets, one at a time the quad eats them for lunch on arrival, with two coming in you can chew one up, but the other will do some damage). 

The priest is a good idea but shooting over watch when charged is worth more than charging. Force your opponent to waste their turn and get shot twice as much.
Outfitted as they are, I don't see many units charging unless they have no other options. Most people are going to try to get into range to use massed anti-infantry firepower, drop templates into it and generally try to avoid getting mixed up in melee with it.

Due to the 6th ed. change to rapid fire (you can move and still fire 2 shots), there is no reason not keep moving and continually press the man advantage to force them into a situation where they are in charge range and you can charge, soak the over watch fire and smash the stuffing out of them. Conversely they would likely try and stay out of charge range and whittle away at range until pressed to the point where they must charge or get charged, lets look at some rough math with flat hit % rates.

For the 50 man blob with 5 axes, 5 flamers and a commissar without upgrades.

Getting Charged: 5 flamers means up to 15 auto-hits, you have 80 lasgun shots , 5 laspistol shots and 1 bolt pistol shot on over watch (all of which can be allocated up to 24" since they are in a unit with lasguns). They hit on 6+ (16.67% hit rate), so on average, about 10 flamer hits (average of a d3 is 2) and 14 other hits to soak up in over watch prior to engaging. Once engaged the blob has 45 CCW attacks, 15 axe attacks and 3 CCW from the commissar hitting at most worst they hit on 5+(33.33% hit rate) so 16 CCW hits (same stat line as lasgun for Str and AP) and 5 axe hits to soak.
Grand total =  10 Flamer, 14 Ranged, 16 CCW and 5 axe hits, so 45 possible wounds.

Charging: 6 pistol shots that hit at worst at 4+, plus 5 flamer templates that may be able to hit prior to the charge (lets call it 1 model per flamer average) so 3 pistol hits and 5 flamer hits. 90 CCW attacks (same stat line as lasgun for Str and AP), 20 axe attacks and 4 CCW from the commissar.  At worst they hit on 5+(33.33% hit rate), so on average your foe has got 31 CCW hits and 7 axe hits to soak up, however this does not include the silly single frag grenade that one of the 50 guys could throw while closing.
Grand total =  5 Flamer, 3 Ranged, 31 CCW and 7 axe hits, so 46 possible wounds.

The addition of the basically equipped priest adds 4 more CCW attacks, you have one more pistol shot in closing fire and your hit rate on the charge jumps to 55.56% for your H2H attacks due to rerolling misses, so on average the same unit still scores 3 pistol hits and 5 flamer hits, but will score 54 CCW hits and and 11 axe hits when charging. Yet again this does not account for the single throwable frag grenade.
Grand total =  5 Flamer, 3 Ranged, 55 CCW and 11 axe hits, so 74 possible wounds.

So a without a priest it's about the same whether charging or charged, with the priest the opponent is actually better off charging your blob.

Like I said this is just rough numbers, your milage may vary. ;)


 

Offline MRmehman

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Re: How do we control the middle of the board?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2013, 01:13:42 PM »
Stick something with longevity with a cheap transport and try to contend your opponents objectives. You may not get them, but choking you opponent of his/her victory points will help you a lot.
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Offline Colby

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Re: How do we control the middle of the board?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 03:44:07 AM »
Alright so your Imperial Guard, you almost never have to worry about your board edge. Thats where you put your blob of poor schmucks with your tanks, daring people to come and take your objectives. On your opponents side, you should have enough artillery to blow a whole in their defenses, maybe some infiltrators too? I don't know.

Now with the middle its easy, your army has mobility in regards to chimeras and your flyers. So all you have to do is move some veterans up to take the objectives in the middle, and maybe use some storm troopers or something to do some shenanigans in your opponent's side. So what you have is your side is secure, the middle should be secured by your veterans, with some disposable elite units messing around in the far side, while being pelted by manticores and the like.

Offline Bad Wolf

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Re: How do we control the middle of the board?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 06:39:59 AM »
IG control the middle of the board with blast templates
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