Author Topic: Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army  (Read 1101 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fritz40K

  • ADMIN
  • Primarch
  • *
  • Posts: 1338
    • View Profile
Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army
« on: January 23, 2017, 10:00:47 AM »
Was recently asked about building a horde chaos list- essentially a cheap lord protected by a rhino and the rest of the points in cultists. Drown your opponent in a sea of fanatics. Double bonus points for painting and modeling all those cultists.

So how would we make such and army scary- FUN for sure, but scary?

Ive got some cultists in my list, but not enough as a horde. The only guy I know who has pulled it off both in form and style is my 40K bud ROB. He is the genius behind many technological terrors and its worth check his stuff out on his blog Ex Profundis here:http://www.exprofundis.com/blog/

Ive played in a number of games where he has brought hundreds of cultists to the table- some pics below from one game to check out for inspiration.

Lots of cultists may or may not be hard to chew through, but I think the key is what can you also include in the army that will buff the cultists base making them even more annoying and survivable. Psychic powers? Helbrute stuff? Mass marks I think will just add up in points- better to have more bodies.

Id also change the lord to a winged prince, maybe even two so you have some speed to take advantage of the chaos created by the cultists, and to move fast on units that might be able to mas kill a bunch of cultists.

Thoughts for a starting point on such a vision?

Offline xDalee

  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 858
    • View Profile
Re: Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2017, 06:15:10 PM »
Maybe starting with typhus + zombies isn't a terrible idea to start with, or if nurgle isn't your father, The lost and the damned formation gives you a chance to respawn the whole unit including upgrades and numbers , making them essentially conscripts with more stuff which i could see becoming hella annoying, and makes a nice charge foward, respawn for objective grabbing later kind of army.
Regards,

Dalee~

Offline Cruxis

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2017, 04:41:21 AM »
Was recently asked about building a horde chaos list- essentially a cheap lord protected by a rhino and the rest of the points in cultists. Drown your opponent in a sea of fanatics. Double bonus points for painting and modeling all those cultists.

So how would we make such and army scary- FUN for sure, but scary?

I’ve got some cultists in my list, but not enough as a horde. The only guy I know who has pulled it off both in form and style is my 40K bud ROB. He is the genius behind many technological terrors and it’s worth check his stuff out on his blog Ex Profundis here:http://www.exprofundis.com/blog/

Fritz, I'm following your youtube channel and you taught me a lot about Chaos since that's the only thing I'm interested in playing. But seeing this it seems you can't play chaos any other way (except if you go crazy with heldrakes) but to mass cultists or make them 1/3 of your army in any case for survival purposes.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about my assessment, but shouldn't any chaos army look like this for competitive reasons in any case?

You always say that chaos's true strength is cultists since they bill us heavy on the points for any traitors equivalent. It reminded me of the military decree in the start of the gunpowder age over Europe where it was standard for armies to consist of 1/3 pikeman against the threat of cavalry to the cannons and gun lines.

I'm very new to the game so I could be wrong in my line of thinking, but do you create your cultists as ranged or melee squads? maybe mix them up as both? I just cannot see how a bunch of melee cultists are of any use except to shave points for scoring units if you're strapped for every point you use. I can see how the flamers are useful, but can they really turn the tide if your squad get charged? Is that auto-cannon really effective? It kinda looks like a bolters worth on the stats, but like I said. I'm as green as a blade of grass.

With a cultist build like this that go beyond 1/3 of your army, how do you get to kill. Volume of dice?

Sorry for the late reply. See it's a week old.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 04:46:02 AM by Cruxis »
  • Chaos Space Marines
Lessons not learned in blood are soon forgotten...

Offline Fritz40K

  • ADMIN
  • Primarch
  • *
  • Posts: 1338
    • View Profile
Re: Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2017, 07:54:18 AM »
I still feel like cultists are one of the better values across all the chaos books. They have their challenges, but at least can help offset some of the more expensive point sinks of other CSM units, especially if compared to their loyalist counterpart.

I run both shooty and assault cultists as a mob pushing forward with my first units. The shooty guys just to throw out some dice which have enough volume to get lucky enough  to cause a few wounds or kill a few models, and the assault guys to take the incoming eat or add some volume of dice in the assault wit auto pistol shots before charging.

Shooty ones always do well- get into cover helps no armor and t3 and auto guns are pretty good in mass.

Assault cultsits are weak, but I need the theme- they are never in cover, always moving, short range and t3.

Still good units, and they have a place even if not in horde mode.

Cultists of Chaos, the GODS are watching.

Immortality is yours!

Take it!

Offline Cruxis

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2017, 02:28:27 AM »
I still feel like cultists are one of the better values across all the chaos books. They have their challenges, but at least can help offset some of the more expensive point sinks of other CSM units, especially if compared to their loyalist counterpart.

I run both shooty and assault cultists as a mob pushing forward with my first units. The shooty guys just to throw out some dice which have enough volume to get lucky enough  to cause a few wounds or kill a few models, and the assault guys to take the incoming eat or add some volume of dice in the assault wit auto pistol shots before charging.

Shooty ones always do well- get into cover helps no armor and t3 and auto guns are pretty good in mass.

Assault cultsits are weak, but I need the theme- they are never in cover, always moving, short range and t3.

Still good units, and they have a place even if not in horde mode.

Cultists of Chaos, the GODS are watching.

Immortality is yours!

Take it!


I understand the theme part, I'll be more a fluff player when I start out, playing with friends so my two armies need to be more accurate lore wise than something twisted to give me wins. Sadly the way codex's are set out don't have unit limits on things like Heldrakes, GW leave that to us :(

Since you're going mass cultist, I guess you'll have tons of points to spare am I correct?

If the above statement are considered correct, I guess I'll consider the follow options and I'll explain why the crazyiness:

-Chosen
-Warp Talons
-Helbrutes
-Terminators

Now some of these options don't seem competitive sure, but if I think fun these are my first options personally. The deadly part, sorry, you might have me dead to rights on that but maybe something talks to you here inspiring you to a better idea with all the years of experience on the tabletop that I couldn't see.

-Chosen because I love them to bits for no damn reason. I'm still waiting for my Chaos Legions book to arrive so I have no idea how they've been buffed. I would love to use these guys in some melee way, but that requires tons of buffering which your cultists may just provide. Even if only two chosen hold on to some melta's/plasma and the rest are made for the fight it could be fun, but you'll burn cultist's faster and I'm not sure if you'll be able to bust through his lines with a few groups of chosen protected by cultists. Might need something extra for the punch in support of these blokes from what I read so far.

-Now the orphan, the guys I cannot defend with single shred of evidence. I do hope Traitor Legions helped these guys out cause they're so redundant at the moment, but oh my sack they are beautiful. I would love to figure out some strange way to make them work and maybe mass cultist could help out a bit: The warptalons. If you DS them in the enemy have to deal with them, this might save some cultists if you roll lucky on the blind, almost like a pre-chosen charge support. Blind them and run in with the melee cultist or chosen/berserkers/possesed/ect.. The real problem here is effectiveness and cost, will you have enough points to invest for such a tactic should it be plausible? Well, if so, I can promise the fun but not the effectiveness.I personally am gonna mess around with these guys just for the fun of it, because I had to choose the worst unit in the codex to love the most.

-I've seen some nice helbrute formations that might still fill nicely into the fluff. For some reason they look very fun to play with and they can take a small measure of punch which makes it a nice choice all round. It's as if helbrutes are made for cultists, I won't even be surprised if some cultists feel the need to marry one (good luck witht he powerfist on wedding night). I might even try to get a few of these blokes and mesh them up with some cultists sometime, it looks like some fun.

-I had to put in terminators because of my bias love for them. My heart can't accept the fact that the emperor's terminators are better than mine and I never will no matter how many engagements they lose against them. If all other reasoning fails, mine have tusks so the emperium can suck it. These guys will at least take the fire off your cultists AND give you the punch warptalons can't so it's a best of both worlds scenario since I think they're actually cheaper than warps with close to twice the points. either way, I always need terminators somewhere. I can't say how to kit them, but that's not the point, you've got terminators and that's all that matter in my books XD

I didn't put possesed in here because I still need to make up my mind on them and especially the amount of sculpting I'll have to do when I choose to field them. The way they look in the picture of the codex and what I get when I buy them form GW... really throws off my choice a bit. I still need to read through their stats, so I can't have an opinion on them except that their fugly if you buy them in my opinion.

Anycase, I just wanted to post some newbie thoughts and see if you can shed some light on my own choices as well.

Regards

  • Chaos Space Marines
Lessons not learned in blood are soon forgotten...

Offline xDalee

  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 858
    • View Profile
Re: Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2017, 03:27:20 AM »
Saw your cultist spam video, great vid, i have discovered recently that Alpha legion respawn cultist units on a 4+, with lost on the damned is another 4+ possibly spawning 2 units per 1 that dies, to need to take 1 core and 1 auxillary choice though but i watched a battle report where he ran out of cultists models.
Regards,

Dalee~

Offline Zeran

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2017, 06:51:52 AM »
Saw your cultist spam video, great vid, i have discovered recently that Alpha legion respawn cultist units on a 4+, with lost on the damned is another 4+ possibly spawning 2 units per 1 that dies, to need to take 1 core and 1 auxillary choice though but i watched a battle report where he ran out of cultists models.

Just to be clear, according to that latest FAQ, the Alpha Legion detachment rule does not stack with Lost and the Damned. However, I now interpret it as kinda of a reroll. If I fail one of the rolls, I can roll it again. The FAQ says it does not stack however, if I fail one of them I can then roll the other one. So you still get a 75% chance of reviving the unit of cultists. Still useful, but I find to really get this working you need min squads of cultists to die constantly. A huge 35 blob of cultists won't go down fast enough to really get to use Alpha Legion rules to full effect. Due to that compulsory champion you get less cultists with min squads so in my Alpha Legion lists I mix 35 large blobs for threatening firepower in the center of the board (Body of the Hydra) and smaller min squads with a flamer or stubber infiltrating all around the map (Heads of the Hydra)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 07:07:45 AM by Zeran »

Offline xDalee

  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 858
    • View Profile
Re: Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2017, 08:47:40 AM »
yeah, sucks, still a fairly decent way to make cultists annoying
Regards,

Dalee~

Offline Ironclad13

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 63
  • Iron Within, Kill Main Burn! Ahem... Iron Without.
    • View Profile
Re: Warhammer 40K: Building Horde Chaos Cultist Army
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2017, 11:32:35 PM »
Helcults I've found to work fairly well.  You don't get any of the fancy unit resurrection that Alpha Legion or the Lost and the Damned formation give you but making them Fearless for 100 points of Helbrute is a pretty good bargain, much better than the Dark Apostle tax who has to remain within 6" of the Cultists.  The Helbrute just has to stay alive and if they do stay within 6" they give a 3+ look out sir to the Helbrute.  If it dies it gets even better, they all gain Zealot which only increases their tarpit capacity as they have a higher chance to drag enemy models down with them and they still don't run away.

Personally I like splashing out the extra 25 points to slap a twin-linked Lascannon on the Helbrute to make it a real annoyance, possibly taking that last wound of someone's big monster or hull-point of a tank, or instant death that character who's lost their squad.  At AP2 it sometimes even pulls a penetrating hit with an "Explodes!" results off the damage chart in the early game. 

I suppose it's my tricknology unit, it's not likely to score those devastating hits but it sometimes can and the longer it stays alive the more rolls of the dice it gets.  Losing it however, only costs me 125 points, diverts attention away from the rest of my army and only makes my unbreakable cultists fight harder.

Subsequently I tend to run either two Helcults with 10-man cultist squads to maximise my use of multiple small units or I'll run one Helcult with 20-man cultist squads to maximise their ability to tarpit/leverage volume.  Either way each Helcult always has one combat squad with Flamer(s) and one shooting squad with Autoguns and Heavy Stubber(s).
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:21:38 AM by Ironclad13 »
  • Chaos Space Marines, Astra Militarum, Eldar, Space Marines
Some are born great, others achieve greatness.  Some...

Some are still throwing spears at the buses.