Author Topic: Wraith knights and jinking bikes  (Read 811 times)

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Offline Noctifer

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Wraith knights and jinking bikes
« on: February 04, 2017, 02:01:38 PM »
Hi everyone, just joined having recently (left off at 7e, started back up a month ago) gotten back to the hobby... And I'm getting eaten alive by Eldar.   Some of it I totally get, I'm effectively a newbie, I Should lose.  But.. I'm just not finding solutions.  My most consistent opponent brings various ratios of Eldar jetbikes and wraith-stuff (and flyers which are just death).  If I bring Marines of any flavor (CSM or Noise Marines) they are just meat - their range is 24" vs Eldar 36", the Eldar hit with a wall of death (how do they get so many shots?!) And then they jump back even further away  against the one or two lone survivors.  I can't reach them.  Anything I Can reach seems to have a T score that I need to roll 7s to wound.  (So bringing cultist bodies would just be a joke)  If I bring predators or terminators D weapons drop them without even blinking.  If I bring Helturkeys the flyers just laugh their butts off.   I'm starting to dip into forgeworld cheese but then I don't get any of the detachment bonuses of course (beyond the core one) and they are pricey for stuff that D weapons just slap away.  If I deep strike my dimension key never reaches melee through the wall of infinite shots, the deep strikes in back field die from missteleports, or they get one round of shooting before the Eldar notice them and swat them out of existence. 

Any thoughts / suggestions for how to deal with mixes like that?  Pretty please? 

(Oh, and it's a campaign so I'm doing emperor's children, and I just generally won't touch Nurgle or Khorn, just personally can't connect with those two)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 02:05:35 PM by Noctifer »

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Wraith knights and jinking bikes
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 03:08:16 PM »
Emperor's Children have an okay matchup against Bikes in general.  Blastmasters.  Blastmasters everywhere.  Ignores cover means Bikes can't Jink.  Check out a Sonic Dreadnought if you need extras, though they no longer have a model.  I can almost promise you, there are other ways of getting a Slannesh Dreadnought out there.  I'm also a big fan of Sicarans and run one in nearly every list.  They die to D, but so does everything else.

Airpower and Wraiths are much harder to handle.  You're trying to fight the best army with one of the worst, and actively avoiding the most durable part of it.  Your options are limited but I do like Autocannons and a metric ton of praying to whatever Chaos god is watching.  Havocs are a must, but you have to protect them.  Plan for them to be targeted and when setting up terrain, make sure you have a nice defensible spot protected by Noise Marines to deter Bikes.  Airpower is going to crush you.  We have no answer to that unless you get a Fire Raptor or a pair of Hell Talons.  I rather like Hell Talons, but they're fragile.

Obviously, you need to abandon the cute little Formations if you want to run most of these.  They weren't helping you much anyway though and Slanneshi players need the boost from Forge World.  CAD it up and expect to lose a lot of models.

Offline Noctifer

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Re: Wraith knights and jinking bikes
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2017, 06:16:23 PM »
Sweet, thanks much for the advice, I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens :)

Offline Noctifer

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Re: Wraith knights and jinking bikes
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2017, 10:25:29 AM »
Ok, here's what I'm gonna bring tonight (sounds like he'll bring his Eldar to play):

Emperor's children 2K

Rapture Batallion
* Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, L3, power armor, spell familiar, wings (meant to fly around dealing with flyers while summoning daemonetts)
* Kakaphani Detachment
** Chaos Lord (base tax, attach to one of units in rhino)
** Noise Marines x10 + rhino w/ extra armor (7x sonic blasters, 2x blastmaster)
** 2x Noise Marines x5 + rhino (3x sonic blasters, 1x blastmaster)
* Hellturkey Pack detachment (2x hellturkeys w/ baleflamers for flyers and bikes)

Combined Arms Detachment
* Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, L3, power armor, spell familiar, wings (doubling up the circus)
* 2x Cultist Troops (base w/ req Mark tax, hold back field objectives)
* Relic Scarab w/ side Heavy Bolters w/ extra armor (deal with kinky bikes)
* 1x Rapier Battery w/ quad bolter (about rear of things come close, or at least distract - may drop some tank armors to swap this for a conversion beamer to deal with the insane Eldar range)

That's roughly from memory of what I wrote up.  It's 4x blastmasters, 2x baleflamers, 2x summoning princess that will be jinking for all they are worth (maybe landing if I roll iron arm), 3x squads to move forward to midfield objectives, and a few heavy bolters for dice-wall on bikes and flyers..

Thoughts?  Last minute changes I should make?  Oh, can jinking still vector strike?  *Thoughtful*
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 11:04:16 AM by Noctifer »

Offline Noctifer

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Re: Wraith knights and jinking bikes
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 09:04:29 AM »
(played, no battle report cause he ended up bringing a Tyranid experimental army - I consented, was almost all monstrous flying creatures... The sacaran tank proved fun, the blastmasters not so much (blast doesn't hit flying), the hellturkeys managed to pop one thing before exploding..  well, I did learn that flying creatures that get grounded can just zoom again on their turn so grounding doesn't do much, that blast weapons hit closest (can't see) model but (since actual target might not have cover) skip any cover said model may have, and that every army except chaos gets a seemingly infinite number of shots per model.  *Sigh*.  The Hel Talon was kinda nice for its points.    Anyway, not a good matchup to gauge anything by, his army was more 'know it's cheese but just wanna try it aaaaand yup, cheese' (which I was OK with).  I'll let you know if/when I try things vs the original Eldar

Offline Ironclad13

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Re: Wraith knights and jinking bikes
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2017, 05:12:54 AM »
Craftworld Eldar are kind of God-Mode right now.  It's disheartening not only because it's a ball-ache to play against but also because it leaves very little variety in Eldar list builds.

The best advice I've ever been given is to attack the softest parts of your opponents army.  Without support, the nastier stuff will still hurt but less intensely.  If there's nothing you'd consider "soft" in their list, then attack the "least hard" bit.

List-wise, some of the formations can be made to work but if you're coming up against that sort of Eldar list don't bother running a full decurion.  For me I've found an Iron Warriors CAD plus Helcults (Helbrutes Data Slates) to work fairly well.

The Helcults give you fearless/zealot Cultist blobs that give the Helbrute leading them a 3+ look out sir.  As for the CAD, you can take Obliterators as troops and bulk out on Havocs with a Daemon Prince to do whatever.

Personally I like Iron Warriors because it gives all my Obliterators and Havocs Tank Hunters but there's nothing stopping you potentially from making it work with another Legion.  That Noise Marine sonic weapons ignore cover is a massive boon against Jinking bikes so there's totally an application for Emperor's Children running Noise Marines as your Troops choices with whatever support you feel you need.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 05:15:29 AM by Ironclad13 »
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Offline Noctifer

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Re: Wraith knights and jinking bikes
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2017, 09:25:03 PM »
That sounds potentially intriguing, I'll look into that.  I got two armies queued up to see what he brings, though I think he's toning down to mids and SOBs to give me more of a chance as I learn ><. Told him he didn't need to, I'll learn faster vs competition armies, but he's excited to experiment with those I think