Author Topic: Primarchs  (Read 2431 times)

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Online Nightwing7x

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Primarchs
« on: February 04, 2017, 10:48:40 PM »
Hello everyone so it has been a while since I last posted but it good to be back especially now with the whole primarch thing going on.

Speaking of which lets talk about that. I am very disappointed that the first loyalist back is papa smurf himself and his model if you ask me does not look the best, his head is very disproportionate to his body and legs and his helm is also too small. The golden trim on his armor is how every very wavey and chaosy if you ask me as well. Plus how did he get the emperor's sword? However enough trash talk to the Ultramarine players out there remember I am not ripping on you but how gw portrays your chapter.

I loved the Magnus release as it brought back a legion that had in my meta never seen any use at all, and once Magnus hit everyone was surprised. The model for him was also a little under whelming but still certainly good. The updated rules following traitors hate was also a very good push in the right direction for Chaos players and a more diverse meta in my opinion.

I was personally caught off guard when they announced that Guilliman would be the first loyalist back. I honestly thought it would be Russ or maybe Johnson. I know we are all biased in our opinions, I am a Dark Angels player and was really hoping that Johnson would be back first with the current events of Luther. Or Russ because Magnus came back and there was the whole war zone fenris thing.

Now the reason I made this post not only do I want to know what you guys think about the release of these monsters. I want to know how do you think they have and/or will affect meta? Which primarch do you think is next, whether it be loyal or traitor? Do you think anyone is going to switch sides? Which primarch would you like to see come back next? Were you surprised by these two being the first back? Lastly how do you think they will impact the story and how about Cypher and the grey knights?

Here is to hoping that gw does not marry sue the crap out of Guilliman and the smurfs. Personally I hope he comes back and is like what have you done to the imperium and why are you interpreting the codex so narrowly. Then him Cassius and Titus become bros.
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Online Eryx_UK

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2017, 12:46:21 PM »
I like it that we are starting to get these new epic characters. The game is becoming a lot more interesting lately.

I was expecting Russ to be the first loyalist after what happened on Fenris. However, Guilliman would make an excellent first loyalist. Considering that the eastern fringes are slowly going dark as the Astronomicon weakens, I can see him turning Macragge into a new Imperium out that way.

I expect GW to alternate between between traitor and loyalist Primarchs now. Hoping to get Mortarion sooner rather than later myself.
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Online Nightwing7x

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2017, 02:12:23 PM »
That would be cool seeing at how gw changed the meta in my area with Magnus it would be good to see some nurgle love. Plus Guilliman has made another Imperium once so he will probably do it again especially considering the state of the imperium as it currently stands, and they say nurgle is rotting away.
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Offline hillshire

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2017, 02:31:54 PM »
Personally, I think Guilliman is suffering from the same problem Darth Vader has been: he's the subject of so many memes, jokes, and funny videos that people forget that he's none of those things. They're powerful and interesting characters in their own right. On BoLS, I put it this way.

Have you seen Rogue One? Do you remember the scene at the end where Vader leads a one-man boarding action onto a Rebel ship? That's the moment where you suddenly remembered that Vader was the stuff of nightmares when you were a kid watching the original series. And really, those movies didn't capture his sheer power they way the boarding scene did.

That's what I'm hoping for with Guilliman. We'll get to see some awesome that will remind us that he is the Primarch of the Ultramarines, a god of war who could save the Empire, cast it down, or claim it for himself. I'm thinking he's going to be none too pleased with the High Lords of Terra, resulting in a schism.

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2017, 03:33:00 PM »
100% agree he is a primarch after all, a son of the emperor and as you described him to be a god of war. I also agree he is going to have a problem with the modern imperium. I mentioned this is my first post at the end.
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Offline hillshire

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2017, 09:12:52 PM »
By the way, thanks for starting this thread. This will be fun!

I'm thinking of the High Lords of Terra as similar to the leaders of the Soviet Union (and Russia for that matter). The only good hero is a dead hero. That way the High Lords/Politburo can create propaganda about how the hero was a loyal follower of the rightful rulers of Terra/the Soviet Union/Russia. A living hero is a always a threat. He might say or do something which challenges their leadership.

So, maybe the High Lords of Terra initially hope Guilliman dies in battle. Maybe with a little help from the Ordo Assassinorum. Failing that, things boil over into open conflict.

But what about the Emperor? Next time. Maybe tomorrow night.

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2017, 03:02:12 AM »
I can certainly see them not being happy about a Primarch coming back but at the same time who better to help lead the armies of mankind against some of the threats facing the Imperium these days. I'm sure that an uneasy alliance could be made between the Highlords and Roboute.
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Offline hillshire

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2017, 07:41:54 AM »
"I can certainly see them not being happy about a Primarch coming back but at the same time who better to help lead the armies of mankind against some of the threats facing the Imperium these days. I'm sure that an uneasy alliance could be made between the Highlords and Roboute."

I think that's true up until the point where the Second Siege of Terra ends. After that, there will be a fracturing of the Imperium. Most particularly because at the height of the battle, the Grey Knights enact the Terminus Decree. The Golden Throne surges with power and something awesome happens which helps the "Good Guys" win. Literally a Deus Ex Machina. When the golden glow fades, there's just an after image of the Emperor at his mightiest before the image fades to reveal an empty throne.

That's when the fracturing begins. There's no central core to hold the factions together. Some will say his is gone forever, others that he will return in some future age. Still others will say that he has become a Chaos god while others say he has returned and is secretly working amongst them.

I think there will be primary three factions: Those loyal to the Lords of Terra, those who side with Guilliman, and those who try to remain neutral and work with both sides.

For the Neutral parties, I'm predicting:
Custodes and Sisters of Silence. They will remain on Terra and await the return of the Emperor, possibly locking everyone out of the throne room.

Grey Knights and Deathwatch. Their mission stands above who is right or in authority so they will stay on task. Both sides will still contribute Space Marines to the Deathwatch. Grey Knights are mostly self-sustaining.

Any thoughts on who else sides with who?

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 12:36:31 PM »
Adding a little bit to that line of thinking, that is only a handful of the imperium as well what about the ad mech, the hundreds of space marine chapters, or the astra militarum etc etc. I would love to go into more detail but am on time constraints right now.
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Offline Sensenbob

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 05:12:03 PM »
Well, if Big E fades, what about the Astronomican? Warp travel would be impossible/absolutely random. Or do you think Eldrad will come to terra and fix the Webway Portal/Warp Rift thingy Emps kept "stuffed"

Fracturing sounds kinda fun though :D

Hmm, what would BloodAngels do ? Possibly side with Guilliman until big Emps reincarnates, all the while being too busy anyways because they get Nommed by the Tyranids :D
well...
I much rather think the Blood Angels will all die to the last man gloriously defending the Golden throne in order to make sure the "something awesome" you mentioned happens. All that after leaving Baal to be Devoured in order to defend Terra. Dante is said to play some important role.??!


I think the Dark Angels will have some very interesting storyline interaction, they seem to carry all the big mysteries around!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 05:13:37 PM by Sensenbob »
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Offline hillshire

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 06:55:22 AM »
The Astronomican certainly needs consideration because as Sensebob noted, navigation through the warp would be come impossible/absolutely random. Also worth noting, the Webway gate beneath the Golden Throne would likely release a Deamon horde if the Emperor falters, let alone dies. So that needs addressing too.

Possible solutions?

Webway gate gets fixed, probably with Eldar help, in a manner which powers the beacon as well as seals the gate. Maybe Cawl's bargain and unique item he's hauling around come into play.

Or the Imperium gains provisional access to the Webway with Eldar help. I don't see that as likely though.

Cawl's unique item is a Pharos which when connected to the Golden Throne is sufficient to "tune" the Astronomican as it's powered by the sacrificial psykers. Probably weaker but still functional.

The Astronomican fails and the Mechanicum comes up with something based on Tau technology. Functional and safer but much more limited than Warp travel.

Any other ideas?

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 08:14:32 AM »

Webway gate gets fixed, probably with Eldar help, in a manner which powers the beacon as well as seals the gate. Maybe Cawl's bargain and unique item he's hauling around come into play. 

Wasn't there something about this or or the Mechanicum having an alliance to fix the throne in recent years?

Quote
The Astronomican fails and the Mechanicum comes up with something based on Tau technology. Functional and safer but much more limited than Warp travel.

But then we lose the whole travel through hell type aspect of 40K. Can't see GW going that way.  But I can see a possible alliance with Eldar to strengthen the Astronomicon or fix the golden throne.

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Online Nightwing7x

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 05:17:03 PM »
Personally I do not see the mechanicum using tau tech that is heresy but getting that webway working is the most logical thing to me. I just hope they dont bring back the emperor too soon. I want to see more primarchs first plus what role would the Custodians have in this? Maybe we could get a something like in tts where they come out of the imperial palace and help fight in the second siege of terra, after all gw said they might get there.
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Offline hillshire

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2017, 08:49:03 PM »
I'm guessing there will be a daemonic incursion on Terra, possibly before the Golden Throne. So the Custodes and Sisters of Silence will be able to put their 40k rules into full effect. On a side note, while their primary mission is on Terra, I always figured the Custodes would rotate units into field service to keep their combat skills high.

I had a new thought the other day. Maybe the reason the Imperials got two Triumvirates is because they will lead separate sides of the Empire after it splits. Maybe. Here's how it might break down. Just speculating though.

Lords of Terra
St. Celestine. While she isn't loyal to the Lords of Terra per say, she does represent faith that the Emperor will return to his Golden Throne on Terra to lead mankind into a glorious new age.

Cawl. Mars already has pacts and covenants in place with the High Lords of Terra, so Cawl and his followers would already be committed to upholding Imperial rule via Terra.

Inquisitor Greyfax. The Inquisition has worked closely with the Lords of Terra for ten thousand years. Indeed, it's possible Guilliman wouldn't entirely trust the fanaticism of the Inquisitors and might seek to limit their power. Greyfax specifically might be finding allies within the Inquisition to bring back "the good old days" of her time.

Unremembered Empire Reborn
Roboute Guilliman. Founds a rational and organized "Second Empire" based in the Ultramar segmentum. Logical heir to the Emperor and gifted leader. Not the founder of girlyman cat memes on Facebook and BoLS comments sections.

Cypher. Reaches the Golden Throne and receives absolution for himself and loyalists Fallen. But then the Emperor dies and the Dark Angels don't believe a word of it. So, you have Cypher leading loyalist Fallen Dark Angels in their original Legion colors on the side of the Second Empire (maybe?) while Azrael leads the "modern" Dark Angels on the side of the Lords of Terra.

Grand Master Voldus. I'm kind of stuck here. I just don't see the Grey Knights taking sides. I think they'd fight Daemons at the side of both . . .  sides.

And who knows. Some of the recent stuff I've been reading about the Eldar Triumvirate implies that they want the Imperium united under Guilliman. And Eldar schemes never take a turn for the worse, right?

Online Nightwing7x

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Re: Primarchs
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2017, 02:00:56 PM »
The idea of the imperium splitting is starting to look more and more convincing to me plus its not the first time something that would happen look at the horus heresy. However that comment you make about cypher seems very interesting. I am a Dark Angels player and my friends always joke that I am not loyal to the imperium and this and that, which I do not mind every army has its flaws. However the idea of cypher working with guilliman and azrael working with the high lords is interesting. I think it would work out more to where Azrael sides with guilliman just because him and his chapter are not the biggest fans of the inquisition or the high lords trying to get some of there secrets. And/or that cypher would restore the Lions sword via the emperor and awaken johnson then have whatever fallen he can turn back to the "modern" Dark Angels. That or Asmodai would have a field day.
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