Author Topic: Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key  (Read 720 times)

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Offline shikatsu

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Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key
« on: February 07, 2017, 06:40:36 PM »
Being blunt I feel like that piece of wargear is taunting me.

Part of me feels like I would be perfect for an almost pure alpha strike list, using either a Raptor Talon or Terminator annihilation squad.

However from a points perspective at least in my head, I keep thinking pure weapons for damage is better...argh.

Should I walk away from it, or work out the way to maximize the focus as it were, I posted my list in The list, but I am still in the model buying stage?

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 09:13:51 PM »
You used the term 'Alpha Strike' and I just want to define that real quick.  An Alpha Strike is the initial strike.  The first time blows happen and it deserves the name because it is a hard hit that can potentially cripple your opponents before they get a chance to fight back.  The Key by its very ability can not ever be an Alpha Strike tool.  It only activates AFTER the wielder makes a kill in close combat.  Which means it at best can only help on Turn 2.

If I remember correctly, CSM only has the Raptors and Warp Talons that can Assault after Deep Strike, taking some of the worry out of the equation if you attach it to a Jump Pack Lord, but Raptors still are bad units, and Warp Talons are expensive.  Not only does the Lord have to make a kill, he has to survive the retaliations in your opponent's turn, meaning 80+ points of upgrades, then he Key, then things to go in with the Lord, then things to come in after the Lord...

I would call it a dud and move on.  That's too many points in trying to force Reserves shenanigans in a Faction that doesn't have anything worth bringing in.  If there were Drop Pods, we might have something to talk about, but we don't have a way to drop in some Plagues or Havocs and Terminators are not good enough.  Oblits are good enough but too expensive.

Offline shikatsu

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Re: Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2017, 09:25:51 PM »
Fair enough...

Maybe should have said, "Going for the throat." but yeah I can see that. Did not realize it was in CC either, since Term annihilation force can shoot after deep striking at a specific target and all that.  Well live and learn.




Offline Noctifer

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Re: Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2017, 03:31:23 PM »
One note (and I'm not pro-Key) is that, I think and unless there's a FAQ, I'm missing, the RAW key role doesn't require the Lord (or whomever) to survive.  It says it requires a kill in fight phase, after that it's just activated - doesn't say the model must be alive.  I've been reading it as 'once on the beacon is open and hell is wide open' / suicide strike.  But since it's fight phase, getting into fight on round 1 is... Unlikely?  And black legion tries to deep strike on turn 1 anyway, so no way it will be active.  The one time I tried using the key I felt so pushed to use it before reserves had a chance to deploy that I left my DP in a very vulnerable position (and still didn't reach)

Offline tomjashroom

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Re: Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 04:18:20 PM »
Dimential Key is only activated in assujlt which is a problem. As Black legion u do get 3+ reserve rolls on turn one if u have take the chaos detachment. so to make that wargear good u would need to have a raptor talon lord assult turn one which requires a good scatter then  use it on followup reserves turn 2. I kind of felt like it might be good as well but changed my mind. Im running with a terminator annihilation force x2 combi plasma squads and X1 melta gun Squads and a terminator squad in my warband each squad has 4 members with combi weapons and x3 power fists or chain fists.  I think its working pretty well atm as black legion but maybe could be even better as Deathguard for feel no pain and t5 (also -1 int doesnt matter when u have so many power fists).

Perhaps if u want to take a nice wargear piece the burning brand could do well with the annhilation force since u can shoot it once in the move phase then again in the shooting. Id take that sucker with the group of combi melta guys anyday.

Offline Ironclad13

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Re: Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2017, 04:00:45 AM »
Ok, so this is a long-shot but you could make it work if the dice gods favour you.

First off, you'll need to ditch the Black Legion and dedicate yourself to Khorne. You want an aggressive alpha-strike?  You have to go all in, screaming KILL! MAIM! BURN! like you really mean it.

The World Eaters Butcherhorde decurion grants all deployed non-vehicle models a free 2D6" move at the start of the game.  Have your mandatory lord on something fast-moving, Juggernaut, Jump-Pack, whatever.  Take that 2D6" free move, plus his 12" regular move, plus his charge range.  If you're lucky, he can make a turn 1 assault and on turn 2 when you start rolling reserves, you can Deep Strike - scatter free - something like a Raptor Talon, Terminator Anhiallation Force, Cult of Destruction, etc.
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Offline tomjashroom

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Re: Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2017, 04:06:46 PM »
You also need to have the right turn 1 because u cant assult in the very first turn 1 of the game. If I was going to do the above tactic Id seriously consider taking x2 lords or a glaive demon prince maybe 3+ spawn and applying that upfront pressure from the get go. Also x2 chances better than one. I still think the black legion termi formation with the warband rules is best because I've seen how much damage the turn 1 deep strike does if you take out units that have low AP weapons.

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2017, 04:21:54 PM »
You can Assault on the first turn.  There is nothing preventing that except typical distances.

Offline Ironclad13

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Re: Black Legion Speartip and the Dimensional Key
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2017, 01:58:51 AM »
You can Assault on the first turn.  There is nothing preventing that except typical distances.

This is in fact quite correct.  The rule stopping turn one assault was 6th Edition.  It's now a footnote under special deployments like infiltrate, deep strike or reserves.  If you can somehow get into charge range using conventional deployment, it's perfectly valid.
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