Author Topic: Crimsons Fists - New Player  (Read 530 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ironclad13

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Iron Within, Kill Main Burn! Ahem... Iron Without.
    • View Profile
Crimsons Fists - New Player
« on: March 03, 2017, 05:25:21 PM »
Hey guys and gals,

So I recently got into Space Marines.  I'm a long time Chaos Marines player and, having dipped my toes into Astra Militarum and Eldar, I've recently discovered a soft spot for the Crimson Fists.

Subsequently, I'd be using the Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics and I'm thinking an army based around using a lot of Tactical Marines in Combat Squads, with Dev and Assault Marines backing them up, probably a lot of mechanisation.  I also think Whirlwinds are ---ing cool. :P

As of right now I have the "Start Collecting Space Marines" box plus a Tactical squad.  So Terminator Captain, 2 Tac Squads, and a Venerable Dreadnought.  Also have the "Imperial Space Marine" with all the combi-disintegrator stuff.  I'd welcome tactical suggestions for equipment and use on the table as well as expansion ideas.
Some are born great, others achieve greatness.  Some...

Some are still throwing spears at the buses.

Offline majordamage

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: Crimsons Fists - New Player
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 08:00:01 AM »
I play fists quite a bit and just having basic units of tacticals is really easy. Don't upgrade them much. Maybe give one a special weapon. But you can be really successful with just running bolters. Sometimes I stick a combat-squaded bunch of tacticals(maybe a special weapon, maybe nothing) in a pod and throw them in my opponent's face. They pop out and act as a very fun distraction unit. The beauty of it is that when the pod opens, your opponent now has 3 targets in front of him (the pod and 2 combat squads). This can take the heat off some of your more damaging units.

With your boxes, I would suggest building most of your tactical marines with just bolters. If you do use the missile launchers (you should have 2) I would build them into a small devastator squad. I would keep your sarges with bolters or with VERY minimal upgrades (maybe melta bombs or an auspex).
You are on the right track with tactical combat squads and devastators. I would avoid assault marines; they are not bad but they are not good either.

I would also not use the terminator captain unless you want to add a bunch of terminators. Personally, I avoid terminators all-together. They just seem like a point sink to me. But some people love them.

Get the whirlwind! It is super fun! 65 point artillery and you get a choice of rounds!
I would recommend a librarian, some devastators with lascannons (you get tankhunter!!!!) and maybe some bikes. A nice surprise unit is a basic attack bike; it's 40 points, you reroll 1s with the heavy bolter and most people can't be bothered to shoot at it. Also...rhinos are wonderful! There are a lot of different units that are all pretty solid in the marine codex.

Overall, I would use what ever brought you to crimson fists in the first place. Have fun!

 

Offline Ironclad13

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Iron Within, Kill Main Burn! Ahem... Iron Without.
    • View Profile
Re: Crimsons Fists - New Player
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2017, 08:24:24 AM »
Overall, I would use what ever brought you to crimson fists in the first place. Have fun!

I was actually having a clear out of some old junk and I found an old White Dwarf from 3rd Edition with the Crimson Fists assaulting an Ork line under the oldschool "Blitz" mission.  The Fists had a bunch of Tacticals in Rhinos, Whirlwinds and Assault Marines and it was really cool just reading this play out as the artillery came down, then the Tacticals broke cover and opened up with their Bolters.  Then the Assault Marines drove the breakthrough home.  There wasn't any fancy Terminators, or Honour Guards, or kitted out Veterans.  Driving victory home with just your Power Armour, your Bolter, your Chainsword and a little faith the Emperor pretty much defined what a Loyalist Space Marine was for me.

So I'll probably throw in one Assault squad just for fun or as a distraction or a Captain-delivery unit but yeah, my main focus is, naturally as an Imperial Fists successor, going to be on Bolters and Devastator support.  I'm thinking of building up to using the Gladius Strike Force which, naturally, needs a Core of Tacticals, Devs and Assault Marines and the obvious Auxilliary choice of the Whirlwind Suppression Force.

So far I've had some success running the Tacticals as Combat Squads with one group sitting back with a Plasma Cannon (managed to nab some spares off a friend), the other with Flamer and Sergeant Combi-Flamer.  It's generally allowed me to engage all manner of infantry at varying ranges so the Devastators which I think are going to be my next purchase are going to be packing Lascannons because tank hunters.  I'll maybe get a second squad with Heavy Bolters for that Bolter Drill goodness.  The Dreadnought, incidentally has been packing an Assault Cannon and Powerfist with Heavy Flamer thus far and supporting the frontline Tacticals.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 08:32:36 AM by Ironclad13 »
Some are born great, others achieve greatness.  Some...

Some are still throwing spears at the buses.

Offline majordamage

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: Crimsons Fists - New Player
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2017, 08:57:47 AM »
Right on!
The Gladius is super good with Imperial Fists. But, you don't need to take assault marines. You can take other fast units instead (bikes, attack bikes, landspeeders). NOW, that being said, I am not super against assault marines, I just prefer other stuff. But the jump guys do have their role for sure!
If you want to use an assault squad as a distraction unit, I highly suggest a 5-man team with 2 flamers. It is cheap and you can deal with some dug-in infantry.

You are on the right track with the plasma cannon. You could also try sitting a 5-man combat squad with Heavy bolter in the back. It is very cheap and you get all bolt weapons re-rolling. It is also a whole squad dedicated to taking out infantry. I always found it a little wasteful to have a guy sitting in the back with a lascannon with four other bolter dudes just sitting there.

Offline Ironclad13

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Iron Within, Kill Main Burn! Ahem... Iron Without.
    • View Profile
Re: Crimsons Fists - New Player
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2017, 03:51:01 PM »
Right on!
You are on the right track with the plasma cannon. You could also try sitting a 5-man combat squad with Heavy bolter in the back. It is very cheap and you get all bolt weapons re-rolling. It is also a whole squad dedicated to taking out infantry. I always found it a little wasteful to have a guy sitting in the back with a lascannon with four other bolter dudes just sitting there.

I'd had ideas about that.  I was debating one squad of Devs (probably a 5 man squad) packing 4 lascannons for tank hunting purposes.  Then a second squad (possibly a full 10-man squad) with 4 heavy bolters for all the re-rolls split into two fire teams of 3 regulars and 2 heavy bolters each.  Or maybe 1 team with all the heavy bolters or another and the remaining regulars just as a meat-shield to put in the way of enemy assaults.
Some are born great, others achieve greatness.  Some...

Some are still throwing spears at the buses.

Offline grainofsalt345

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Crimsons Fists - New Player
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 08:18:51 AM »
...There wasn't any fancy Terminators, or Honour Guards, or kitted out Veterans.  Driving victory home with just your Power Armour, your Bolter, your Chainsword and a little faith the Emperor pretty much defined what a Loyalist Space Marine was for me....

What I have figured out is that for Crimson Fists it is all about capitalizing on Bolter Drill with the humble Boltgun: that is your Chapter Tactics foundation that literally everything else is built upon.
Specifically that means your prime consideration must be a committed push on your part to get every "Chapter Tactics" rated infantry with a Boltgun that you can into play, as soon as you can, getting as many bolter shots as you can manage each and every turn (but most especially "rapid fire" mode Boltguns) for as long as you can sustain it.
Generally any model that does not have a Boltgun+ChapterTactics has to be directly contributing each turn towards getting a model that does have a Boltgun+ChapterTactics into play, or else keeping it in play.
The flip side of this is that every turn that any particular Boltgun model is not producing hits, is a turn of "wasted points" on that Boltgun.
That means you should probably be shooting your Boltguns each and every turn, instead of running your infantry, or doing close combat/assault.
Bolter Drill may not be glorious, but it that is what crimson fists do; and fortunately they are pretty good at doing it, even if that means you will usually be fighting at a deficit on the table most of the time.

To get the most out of Bolter Drill for dependable results, then your core infantry will need dependable support to make sure you can arrange to get that Bolter Drill on tap:
that generally means timing, and positioning, and that generally means transports for your core infantry -- rinos or drop pods (points well spent);
that also means your core infantry will need some direct fire support -- with your Devastator infantry (lascannons) and your Dev Centurians (hurricane bolters of course to capitalize on Bolter Drill);
and also some indirect artillery fire support -- thunderfire cannons and/or rapier quad mortars tend to have good synergy with your core infantry, plus the Bolster Defense can be helpful.

As with the artillery, your Librarian's job is to "support" the set up for getting that Bolter Drill on tap unimpeded.
Similarly, your jump pack assault marines give you positioning/timing options to get your tac squads set up for a Bolter Drill rapid fire rake.

Bikes are strong right now, so of course you can't go wrong with that choice,
but as CF your power projection ultimately in projecting firepower with Kantor and his sternguard vets, in drop pods (or maybe rhinos) for delivery.
combining these with your hurricane bolter armed ironclad in a drop pod gives you your primary ability to project firepower, with bikes as your "second wave" followup to exploit that projection.
(so let's say your Ironclad, and 2 squads of vanilla sternguards riding in 3 drop pods, 2 of which land on turn 1.)

a squad of 5 bolter armed scouts riding in a land speeder storm are fun models, and a fluffy choice;
with Bolter Drill bonus increasing their effectiveness value as shooty scouts -- they are a bargain for the potential options and specials they bring.
putting a multimelta upgrade on the land speeder storm provides you with handy (and fast) antiarmor options at a (relatively) budget price.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 11:31:04 AM by grainofsalt345 »