Author Topic: What is the point of Cypher?  (Read 1116 times)

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Offline Eryx_UK

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What is the point of Cypher?
« on: March 20, 2017, 10:31:26 AM »
Dropping this into this section as it does sort of deal with the Dark Angels, but please move if it would be better somewhere else.

A while back I bought the old metal Cypher model and a handful of Dark Angel veterans to be his Chosen, to go along with my Death Guard. Mainly because my nephew plays Dark Angels and I thought it would be nice and thematic to use him in our occasional games. However, looking over the rules from Gathering Storm 3 I can't see what Cypher and his Fallen have to bring to an army. Cypher is fun with his pistols but his abilities don't add to an army build and his Fallen don't have anything that you don't get from space marines or chaos marines. Outside the fluff element what is the point of playing him/them in an army? I'm sure I must be missing something.
My Death Guard narrative blog: http://thedeathguard.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline TearoftheDragon

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Re: What is the point of Cypher?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2017, 11:29:53 AM »
Add him to a chaos Termies squad to give them infiltrate and Hit and run. Or even infiltrate a squad of Oblits on to a piece of sceneery.
The fallen not having grav does make them a little pointless for CSM. 

Offline SharkoutofWata

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Re: What is the point of Cypher?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2017, 01:14:04 PM »
That's not how Infiltrate works anymore.  It doesn't transfer to anyone, all models but Dedicated Transports that want to Infiltrate must have Infiltrate natively or through a Detachment rule.

There is no point to Cypher other than fluff.  He's a good character himself, but he doesn't add anything to any army that an Assassin doesn't do better, or an Inquisitor.  It's just another hero model that people into the fluff can choose to take.

Offline TearoftheDragon

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Re: What is the point of Cypher?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2017, 03:12:04 PM »
the FAQ says: Page 167 – Infiltrate
Replace the first paragraph of rules text with
the following:‘You may choose to deploy units that contain at least one model with this special rule last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed. If both players have such units and choose to do so, the players roll-off and the winner decides who goes first, then alternate deploying these units.’ Replace the first sentence of the second paragraph of rules text with the following:‘Units that Infiltrate in this way can be set up anywhere on the table that is more than 12" from any enemy unit,
as long as no deployed enemy unit can draw line of sight to them.’
Replace the third paragraph of rules text with the following: ‘If a unit with Infiltrate deploys inside a Dedicated Transport, the same rules apply when setting up their Transport.’

Offline SharkoutofWata

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Re: What is the point of Cypher?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2017, 04:01:43 PM »
And literally the passage right above it:

Page 166 – Independent Character, Independent Characters and Infiltrate
Change this sentence to read:
‘An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa.’

So if you can't join during Deployment, how are you getting the Character in the unit when Infiltrate matters?

Offline TearoftheDragon

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Re: What is the point of Cypher?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2017, 04:53:52 PM »
Weird, they completely contradict each other. The wording at least one model is totally misleading and cannot work with any of the other wording.

Offline SharkoutofWata

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Re: What is the point of Cypher?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2017, 05:21:56 PM »
Agreed.  The way it works now is that the Independent Character is only given permission to join a unit after deployment is completed if one of them has Infiltrate and the other doesn't.  So technically I misrepresented the situation when I said it doesn't transfer, but for all legitimate intents and purposes with Independent Characters, it can't transfer because of these other reasons that prohibit it.

Offline Eryx_UK

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Re: What is the point of Cypher?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2017, 05:52:02 PM »
I'll certainly play him for fluff reasons against Dark Angels but it is disappointing that they don't add anything to the primary army.
My Death Guard narrative blog: http://thedeathguard.blogspot.co.uk/