Author Topic: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?  (Read 1733 times)

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Offline Fritz40K

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Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« on: September 11, 2017, 12:09:51 PM »
So one of the most interesting changes in 8th edition for me has been the Death Guard.

Not from a rules perspective, or which-codex-gets-updated-first, but rather why Games Workshop is showering so much love on the guys- no disrespect intended to any Death Guard players.

It seems Games Workshop is making 8th all about the showdown between Death Guard vs. the Imperium, with the return of the Primarchs and True-Scale Marines (TM) to save the day.

I'm a bit surprised that if they are going to (again) make the focus on chaos, why not Black Legion, Abby, or generic chaos?

Is Games Workshop trying to ride the zombie theme?

I will say that the new models look FANTASTIC, and I'm glad to see them get upgraded to a more grim reaper like look.

More speculation, but I find it funny how GW killed Warhammer Fantasy which was all about the influence of chaos on the empire and all that, and now how the 40K narrative is over the top with Chaos vs. Imperium. Xenos exist, but just seem to be hanging out right now.

Thoughts?
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Offline Leviathan_25

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 10:57:28 PM »
As someone who got into the game in 3rd edition, I feel that the game's best moments were somewhere between the end of 3rd edition and beginning of 4th. 4th fixed and addressed a lot of the problems in 3rd, but tried to keep things mostly the same. It also introduced a new chaos space marine codex that allowed for legion-specific armies. I always thought it was very strange that we got very colorful, unique models and codexes for the big space marine chapters, but we didn't get anything for chaos legions. 4th ed addressed this issue... but from then until now (8th edition), I feel like we didn't get the legion specific codexes that we dreamed we would get back in 3rd/4th.

My point is that this new Death Guard codex feels almost like a love letter to long-time chaos players. I've been playing Chaos Marines with just some small adjustments for marks of chaos. Occasionally we get a special character. But when I'm playing against people like Blood Angels, Space Wolves, or Dark Angels.... who all have special models in loving detail.. I feel left out. Now, I can play with a chaos army that has a wonderfully rich range of models just like my Imperial counterparts.

As to the choice of Death Guard... throughout the last 15+ years of playing 40k, the one consistant chaos army that I see winning in game stores is almost always based around Nurgle/Death Guard themes. Personally, I feel the other chaos powers don't have armies that can allow new players to just kind of pick up and go. Nurgle generally has high toughness and good "toys" to annoy Imperial players and make the game more exiting.

In my mind, in terms of raw strength and easy of play, it's always been...

Death Guard > Emperor's Children > World Eaters > Thousand Sons

My main chaos army was always World Eaters, but I will be the first to admit that I feel outclassed when going up against an equally competent Death Guard player. I just never feel like my "toys" are as good/cool as theirs.

Offline Zarkil

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 08:21:00 AM »
I think they are creating a classic good guy vs bad guy narrative. Girliman was the best "good guy" they could bring back and chaos is the best "bad guy". They are fleshing out those two factions and will continue to sell lots of models for that conflict.
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Offline Fritz40K

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 09:10:59 AM »
I think you are right with the Chaos Legions from the older  'dex. For a long time- 10+ years or more CSM players have wanted specific legion books and models to that faction. BA, SW, DA, and marines all have unique content, why not Chaos?

GW perhaps missed out on printing money since the fan base is there for the content.

I hope they continue the trend and do release the other major traitor legions with books and models.
Though my men may sleep, and my ships rest at anchor, my foes know full well that big guns never tire...

Look on my works ye mighty, and despair...

Offline PepeTykki

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 04:12:06 PM »
Chaos has a wide spectrum of armies that feel different so it's nice to see the specific legions get their long waited legion focus. GW did the same thing in 7th with the Khorne Daemonkin and that was also pretty awesome and way different from other Chaos stuff. Now we have the Thousand Sons and Death Guard as two focused legions which is nice and I hope also that the Emperors Children and World Eaters would get their own focused codexes. Or would that be too many books for chaos to have? Maybe.

I thik that the Traitor Legions book did this right and that should have been the case here. One codex that would list all Chaos Space Marine and Chaos Daemons units. And one book that would have Legion specific rules, strats, psychic powers etc. I think that would be enough.
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Online sindri_tepek

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 04:45:52 PM »
Would love to see a Dorn / Perturabo grudge match emerge..

Offline Eryx_UK

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 06:59:52 AM »
Would love to see a Dorn / Perturabo grudge match emerge..

Give them time. I'm sure we'll see this soon enough. :)
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Offline Fritz40K

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 09:39:50 AM »
Not that I would want to see a return to herohammer, and some would say we are already back, but I would love to see GW put out primarch and primarch-chaos-daemon prince models. Would be amazing to have the choice to play these guys on the table.

Of course the challenge is what do they represent in the game.

Back in the older Necron codex, when the REAL rulers of the Necrons were the C'Tan you could play the two of them on the table. The problem was with resolving the in-game effects with the narrative. Here was a model that defeated the Old Ones and smashed their web way tech, that you could play on the table, but could be killed by almost any unit. GW could not resolve the narrative power vs. the game power. With that regard while I was never happy with the Necron codex rewrite, making the C'Tan "shards" and only a shell of their power was a good move.

If we play a tabletop game where in the books a dozen space marines can subdue a world vs. in game my chaos cultists with pop pistols can take them out, how are you going to balance primarchs on the table?

That said, I want them.

Luthor the prophet is correct, the Lion is healing and will soon return!
Though my men may sleep, and my ships rest at anchor, my foes know full well that big guns never tire...

Look on my works ye mighty, and despair...

Offline PepeTykki

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 05:05:01 AM »
The fact that the Thousand Sons had their primarch and now the Death Guard theirs, seems to point towards the other God specific legions to be getting theirs. Might we se Fulgrim and Angron return in the near future? And what would be next for the imperial primarchs?
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Offline Eryx_UK

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 02:52:57 PM »
My money is on either the Lion or Leman Russ.
My Death Guard narrative blog: http://thedeathguard.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline SharkoutofWata

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 05:09:35 PM »
Because of the pretty poor writing GW has been doing lately, I expect Leman Russ to be the next one or the Khan.  The Lion would effectively seal off Cypher in the story, either prove that Cypher is the 'true' Dark Angel loyalist and the Deathwing and Inner Circle of the current Dark Angels are heretics or Cypher will be once and for all acknowledged as tainted and will properly be exiled.  Either way, I can't imagine they'll keep Cypher active in the plot and he's the biggest crutch that GW has for the fluff.  I expect they'll want to milk his ex machina factor for as long as possible and the Lion will have to wait because of it.

Offline Eryx_UK

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 05:46:40 PM »
I hadn't considered Cypher but I imagine GW have a plan for him. Russ definitely seems right. While Guilliman is holding up the Imperium I can see Russ leading the Space Wolves into battle against the foes of mankind as an opposite response to Guilliman.

At some point I also expect the Sanquinor to be a manifestation of Sanquinious, in a similar way to the manifestation of Celestine, and being the Imperial command in the Dark Imperium.
My Death Guard narrative blog: http://thedeathguard.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline PepeTykki

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Re: Why Death Guard For 8th Edition?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 08:23:34 AM »
Russ would make sence. It would be a responce to Magnus and it would make sence when we have Guilliman vs Mortarion, that we would have Russ vs Magnus. It would be fluffy.
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