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Topics - Kvekan

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General Discussion / Counting primaris as terminators for transports
« on: August 30, 2017, 08:50:13 AM »
As the topic states in my meta we have now begun counting primaris marines as terminators for transport purposes, meaning they can go in for example a land raider or storm raven.

Surprisingly the one who suggested it is an eldar player (kudos for sportsmanship!) but it has only been met with positivity so far.

The rule preventing primaris from going in the old vehicles is a blatant money grab and I've not been able to find any previous case as silly is this so I'm all for it. It neither makes sense from a rules, size or lore perspective in my view.

What I'm really  wondering is what the rest of the community thinks of the house rule?

I'm also kind of curious about why there hasn't been more complaints about the primaris transport issue, thoughts? I'm sure GW would change the rule if they get enough stick for it.

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Discussion: Blood Angels / How would you run blood angels now in 8th?
« on: July 11, 2017, 08:17:56 AM »
I'm 20-ish games, mostly 1000-1500 points, into 8th edition now and have completely revised my thoughts on how 8th would play out.

Making assault armies that aren't horde variants (orcs, tyrannies) viable seems hard to me. In all my games the shooty elements of my list have done all the heavy lifting. This disturbs me to no end as I didn't choose to play blood angels back in 3rd to be some back field bullet slinger but feel more and more shoehorned into that play style.

How would you run Blood angels now in 8th? I think I need an entirely new angle.

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Discussion: THE LIST / 1750 Blood Angels friendly tournament list
« on: January 25, 2017, 04:06:41 AM »
So this is a list idea for a tournament combining eternal war and maelstrom objectives. Rules are only 1 CAD-like detachment and 1 formation from the same faction. "Cheesemongers" are unlikely to get another invite but I still don't want to be a total push-over.

1750 points Lamenters "Spear of Woe"

Formation detachment

Golden Host - 605 points

Dante - 220
Warlord

5 Sanguinary Guard - 220
3 swords, 2 axes, banner, 3 inferno pistols
(Joined by Dante)

5 Sanguinary Guard - 165
3 swords, 2 axes

Baal Strike Force - 1142

HQ

Sanguinary Priest - 96
Jump pack, extra weapon, valor's edge

Elites

Furioso Dreadnought - 165
Frag cannon, heavy flamer, drop pop

Troops

10 Tacticals - 220
Dedicated Rhino. Heavy flamer, melta, sgt combi-melta and melta bomb

10 Tacticals - 220
Dedicated Rhino. Heavy flamer, melta, sgt combi-melta and melta bomb

5 Scouts - 85
Close combat weapons, vet sgt with power sword and melta bomb

Fast

3 bikes - 108
2 grav guns, sgt combi-grav and melta bomb

3 bikes - 108
2 grav guns, sgt combi-grav and melta bomb

Heavy

Vindicator - 140
Siege shield, overcharged engines

Game plan: Tacticals grab objectives and act annoying. Scouts infiltrate or try to deny enemy infiltration space and prey on weak units. Usually get very little attention.

Dante's unit can open most transports fairly reliably and assault its passengers. Other unit preys on enemies without ap2 or shooty backline elements. Multi-charge if possible.

Grav bikers hide behind rhinos and deal with monsters and other scary stuff I don't want to assault. If I get 2nd turn might consider reserving them but not ideal.

Vindicator usually only gets to draw enemy firepower and act more dangerous than it actually is, but every potential shot is scary.

Furioso drops in and does its best to survive behind enemy lines until turn 2 melting as much as it can with its 3 templates.

Priest tags along with a biker squad and then assists where needed, preferably linking up with a sanguinary guard squad.

I chose some units more because of their perceived and potential threat than their practical utility to screw with enemy deployment and try to force them away from open areas. Thus giving me better board control with a relatively mobile army. Doesn't always work especially not on more experienced players.

Main weakness is that I have no anti-air...

Fire away!

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Discussion: Blood Angels / Angel's Blade actually affect your meta?
« on: January 05, 2017, 01:05:56 PM »
I'm just curious if the latest supplement actually affected the meta much, because from what I've seen and the almost dead blood angels forum there's not a lot going on.

To me it doesn't feel like it gave us many new game changing tools. Most options are still straight up worse than using allied space marine formations or not an improvement on the regular baal strike force.

I'd love to be proven wrong though. Have you used anything to good effect?

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Discussion: Chaos Space Marines / Feeling the lure of chaos
« on: December 21, 2016, 07:09:37 AM »
So this is is a thread about me needing some creative inspiration.

I've been in the hobby on and off for about a dozen years, but only ever collected blood angels (now lamenters) in 40k.

Our meta is very marine heavy, but no one plays chaos, and I've thought more and more about the narrative lure of being the bad guy and that's definitely a gap our group needs to fill... But I'll need some help with my thoughts if I am ever to realize these plans. I also realize that just like the loyalist space marines table top performance will never be anything like the lore and books.

So here's what I would want my army to be and not to be:

  • Grim and gritty, frightening looking without the more cartoonish elements and colors. I want them to feel like ruthless, murderous rebels on a mission, not raving lunatics
  • Not necessarily all close combat oriented but definitely not a happy camper setup.
  • Focus on marines, not vehichles, although supporting elements are welcome
  • Play differently enough from my jump troop and assault heavy blood angels to be a fun alternative
  • No nurgle puss and slaneshi tentacles. I really don't like those aesthetics
  • Slight daemonic influence is ok, but I want the leading elements to be super human

So looking at those I'd like some help with choosing a legion/warband (not black legion, I can't stand Failbadon the harmless) and also some tips at a couple of units to start modeling with. I don't mind kit bashing and/or converting to get a better end result. I'm looking at a really long term project here and I realize that chaos space marines are up for major changes so I don't want to over commit.

I've thought about night lords, but I'm not sure how those would be best represented in 40k I also don't like renditions when they go "over the top" with bat iconography everywhere. I've also thought about alpha legion with massive amounts of cultists. But I'd like more army looking cultists for them than the current sculpts. Alpha legion also don't "feel" all that evil...

As a final apprehension most of what I describe above is mostly an "evil loyalist" marine force. I don't want it to be only that so I need some help pushing me over the chaos edge.

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Discussion: Blood Angels / How to use the orbital intervention force?
« on: December 10, 2016, 07:14:52 AM »
After the revamp of the tartaros terminators in the prospero box (a little bulkier which I really like) I've considered trying out this formation. Never been a huge fan of indomitus pattern termies with the boar heads. But new aesthetics (and cheaper investment) got me pumped.

But while everyone seemed really impressed with this formation at realease to me it doesn't seem very easy to use.

It lacks reserve manipulation and any form of scatter reduction so to actually get into reasonable assault distance is a bit of a gamble. That everyone arrives at the same time is a bit of a double edged sword.

Anyway I'm thinking 3 units of 5 assault marines: one unit of 5 hammernators and two with hammer sergeant (handy with a 3++) and 4 lightning claws. Shooty terminators even with double shots just aren't very scary.

To get them on target I'm gonna try dropping in 2 drop pods with locator beacons and probably dreadnoughts. The new supplement screwed up my assault melta pod spam sadly. But at the very least it forces the enemy to stay clear of my pods or waste high strength shots to destroy them.

The second thing to consider is what kind of units they're supposed to deal with. Without the charge bonus and furious charge their utility is limited as far as monster hunting and vehichle wrecking goes. The hammernators can still deal with vehichles of course, but I'm a bit uncertain of their potential against say a wraith knight.

How would you guys run these?

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Discussion: Blood Angels / Angel's Blade... A blunt blunt blade (Rant)
« on: September 21, 2016, 04:36:59 PM »
Just got the new book in the mailbox, and after an hour of reading and confirming the different leaks on the net I'm tempted to send it right back. In my mind it's terribly badly thought through and here I'll give some examples as to why:

1: A demi company with tons of extra compulsory choices (compared to other demi companies we need to take more compulsory units and have less choices, no HQ swaps etc) that gives no bonus apart from the ones the decurion already does, and you'd never field it without a decurion because the baal strike force gives the same exact bonus...

2: Or maybe the fact that the decurion exclusive bonus is zealot when your 5 man squad is down to 2. And since it only works in round 1 of close combat it won't even work when you take your casualties in said combat. The only use is pretty much if you get unlucky and lose more than half your squad to overwatch. That would still be workable if your auxiliary formations actually benefitted from the bonus but no...

3: The jump assault chapter STILL has overcosted vanguards, but they're still the only sensible option for our second core choice in the decurion. Since you probably want your terminators in another formation (which I'll get to later...) and rocking 5 units of sternguards seems very strange in an assault focused army...

4: The core formations are so bloated that you won't fit more than at most one auxiliary with a bonus into the decurion, and most likely you'll have to settle for one of the fillers if you want to play in the most established points levels for tournaments (1500-2000). If you play 2500+ you can have a field day sure, but that doesn't happen too often does it.

5: The assault from deep strike formations negate both the decurion bonuses and our chapter tactic since neither red thirst nor furious charge works. Unlike other space marines who can deepstrike organised and use their chapter tactics to full effect. The shadowstrike kill team and skyhammer are both vastly superior and would even be more fluffy for BA.

6: The death company decurion has exlusive relics amongst them a cool AP 2 glaive encarmine, but the only ones who can use them are chaplains and death company chaplains who already come with bought and paid for power weapons stock making them ridiculously expensive.

7: Our frag cannons did not get updated to be in line with deathwatch despite the fact that we can only take them for our furioso dreadnoughts.

8: Forcing you not only to take specific HQ choices but to take them with specific kit, pretty much forcing you to buy GWs static new models to field them. The new terminator captain entry is a joke.

I can't see any saving grace apart from the death company formation which actually has augmenting bonuses and is admittedly pretty great. But I want to play my chapter, not an unfluffy whole army of generic black models. The land raider predator formation is good, but good luck fitting that into your less than 2000 point army.

And the rest is just lazy or sub par copy paste from the SM formations and squadrons.

2 steps sideways...

I actually think I could play a better "blood angels" list using the SM codex... There is nothing that we do better apart from the fact that we can have poorly assaulting terminators. And that is not even our fluff unit. That should be a DA formation!

I was pretty upset at the complaining chaos players when their supplement hit, but I rescind all my criticism. I'd rather not have spent my money and put my hopes up for this.

...and that felt good to get out of the system.

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The only formation that really intrigues me and my playstyle at the moment is the golden host. However I don't own 2 squads of sanguinary guards, and I'm undecided.

I'm also having a hard time justifying taking it over the SM shadowstrike kill team. A unit with 5 claws, 3 shields and 2 fists costs the same as SG with a banner. Don't get disordered, have rerolls on assault and can use a chapter tactic. These guys can take on infantry, monsters and vehichles with equal ease. SG just can't do that. They're infantry blenders, and if your enemy hides in his metal boxes, with a disordered charge you can't really even count on them wrecking a transport.

As I see it the main benefit is that you can actually get Dante into the fray. The unit without a banner seems especially weak with only 10 attacks the first round and the inability to add a priest.

There are some good formations, however none of them really cater to my collection or playstyle (Dread pods and jump assault). Oddly if you want to play jump assault, SM seems more suitable than BA right now...

I feel like such a grinch, so I could use hearing some good ideas from you guys to get pumped again!

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I have long sympathised with chaos players as a blood angel player when it comes to being inferior marines. However in the wake of the new chaos supplement rumours and teasers I've found the aversity and bullheaded pessimism quite disturbing. The vocal part of the community seem to think the current codex an unsalvagable mess no matter what formations and gadgets thrown at it. So I went and got it just to have a look!

...And was I underwhelmed? Yes... But mostly by the normality of it.

HQs and troops costed according to 7th ed marines. Slightly cheaper if you count the forced sergeants a voluntary upgrade and not a tax. With generally more customization options and varied choices (close combat weapon addons, marks, icons etc).

What I did find really underwhelming and what I guess is most people's gripe was the "flavour units": berserkers, plague marines, etc. They had little additional rules flavour and generally cost a couple of points too much. While the other elite units cost the same as SM counterparts.

And don't missunderstand me, I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't be allowed to complain, I don't think the codex is awesome either! But I want to understand what the real gripe is. When it boils down to it, what are the real problems with the codex that formations and the new supplements can't fix?

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I admit it, I used to be that lazy guy that only brought black sprayed models to the table. A couple of months ago after a giant losing streak against my buddy's eldar I realised I need to get more out of the hobby than just winning. I also started toying with the idea of joining gaming club and attending tournaments outside my own very small meta.

So for the first time in pretty much 10 years I've actually painted with some regularity. I'm really starting to feel the lure of the narrative (I've always enjoyed the books and lore) and after hitting my mental bulls eye with the Lamenters fluff I'm super happy. I got really inspired by Jawaballs as well, it has to be said. However my painting output is ponderous and over the past two months my accumulated work can be seen below.



I own about 4500 points of blood angels, so at this speed it's gonna take me a couple of years to get done which is really daunting. Especially when I'm getting pumped for tournaments. Even if I'm starting with an 1850 list at this speed it'll be early/mid 2017.

I've listened to a lot of good advice about painting models in stages, not least from Fritz's channel, and go back and revisit and add detail later on. However with my method of painting the base color yellow actually takes the most time and I can't really go back and revisit the highlights without messing up the other details. So I've made the two cardinal mistakes in choosing a time consuming color scheme and also started painting after collecting a ton of models. On top of that it turns out I'm also a bit of a pedantic...

Fittingly this turned out more like a lament than my original query:

How do you guys stay motivated painting?

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Discussion: Eldar / the forgotten Eldar assault units
« on: August 08, 2016, 05:08:45 AM »
I'm not an Eldar player, I play the bloody angels, but I've faced off against eldar most of my games. I've noticed that barely anyone ever uses the assault units in the codex. Despite this, from a marine point for point view, on paper they look bloody brilliant, especially the infiltrating scorpions with both stealth and shrouding and the incredibly mobile and hard hitting shining spears (don't think I've ever seen these except in the codex). The banshees are harder I can understand due to the lack of a proper delivery system, but they still only cost 13 points (like a cammo cloak scout) per model making msu a real possibilty. Especially with the aspect host making them all WS5 for free.

I realise most people choose Eldar for the dakka, but the assault units seem unfairly overlooked from my own overly melee centric point of view.

Would love to hear if anyone has any experience with eldar assault elements (doesn't have to be an all out assault list). I'm tempted to make a list out of my friends old and unused aspect warriors just to show him they can still be viable!

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Discussion: Blood Angels / An eye opening melta fail
« on: July 23, 2016, 04:26:03 AM »
Long story short (I do tend to write too long):

I met a friend in a grudge match (Minotaurs vs Lamenters) last weekend and he brought the forge world goodies unbeknownst to me (armored ceramite spam). This rendered my meltacide squads and liberally sprayed meltas in other units utterly pathetic. He also brought the knight castigator which was the perfect counter to my infantry heavy army. I'm usually not scared of knights but this one was pure nasty.

I usually rely on meltas and hitting with power fists to take care of vehichles and I came up horribly short this time. Considering trying out some tournaments soon so I could use some advice.

So the question is: Do you guys generally take more long range fire support like las preds/devs or some forge world shenanigans?

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General Discussion / Game balance: codex vs formations
« on: July 06, 2016, 11:30:07 AM »
This is something I've been thinking about for quite a while. Initially I felt formations were a great fun addition to the game, however I fear that they've added yet another variable that's hard to control as far as balance is concerned, and that is actually hindering creativity in competative play. My thoughts are as as follows:

GW have made their work very difficult concerning balancing because they've tried to rebalance inferior codexes by giving them powerful formations instead of updating the codex. That gives the illusion of balance as long as you run those specific formations. I realise they push certain formations to sell the specific models, but they amount of "free stuff" is getting out of hand.

As an example they removed the ability to assault from deep strike from vanguards because it was too powerful. Then they realised assault units had such a rough time they had to do something about it ...And added cheap formations were you could assault from deep strike, but with even more bonuses (see shadow strike kill team, skyhammer annihilation force). Now the model itself is still inferior unless you run that specific setup where it is suddenly OP. ...As opposed to making a general rebalancing in the codex.

I also wonder what they will do with the formations when the new edition (8th or "7,5") comes out. If they edit the codexes, the resulting effects on the multitudes of formations could be massively skewed. They had a hard enough time balancing before.

Do you think they will "scrap" the old formations with the new editions or do they simply have a huge task ahead of them? Previously I would have said they wouldn't have cared much but with the recent changes to GW I think they are really trying to tidy things up.

As a side note, is there a lot of formation shenanigans in your meta or you do prefer to play with the more "CAD-like" detachments?

A penny for your thoughts!

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Discussion: Blood Angels / Malakim Phoros needs a unit
« on: June 28, 2016, 11:19:57 PM »
So in order to offset some of my own dice-rage I decided to go full Lamenter and embrace the misfortune. Feels like I brought my long dead muse back to life as well because for the first time in almost ten years I'm also painting steadily.

That brings me to this glorious misfortunate: Malakim Phoros. I want to paint his gold and chequered armour and do a nice conversion/kitbash. But then how to use him?

For those of you who don't know him he's from FWs Badab War series. Has a chapter master statline sans one wound but with the added bonus of zealot and a 6" hatred bubble. Also gets an extra strength, attack and grants rage to him and his unit after taking a wound. He brings a melta and a slightly pimped glaive encarmine. However he's still only ap 3 and has no jump pack.

He really needs a delivery system and I'm not sold on the Raven. So I'm thinking him and some terminators in a land raider redeemer. Possibly with a bare bones priest but them points really add up. Can't decide on hammers or claws. Was thinking of DC but that takes away the potential rage buff.  Also open for other ideas!

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Discussion: Blood Angels / Which unit to stick Dante in
« on: April 15, 2016, 06:10:43 AM »
To start out, I really like Dante. The fluff, his stats, my converted model. He synergises well with my jump troop approach as well. All in all I really want him to be my army center-piece.

However! I have not really been using him too well I fear, which means he's been shelved for a long time. I've tried sticking him with sanguinary guards but those guys are just so squishy in my meta. Having Dante in that unit just makes them an even tastier target. I like the idea of sticking him in a death company squad to really get the most out of his hit and run. They however don't synergize too well with his AP2 unless you really splash the points (I like them bare bones, or max 1 fist or power weapon per 5) and they're not that durable either.

That leaves vanguards with stormshields (how I wish BA could also get pw/LC for 5 points for these guys) or going unorthodox deepstriking him with hammernators. Or even sticking him with normal cheap assault marines to draw fire away from my elite units.

How do you guys use him, if you do? What's been successful and what has utterly failed?

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