Author Topic: Where's the Initiative...?  (Read 1394 times)

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Offline Chaos Lord Vrakon

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Where's the Initiative...?
« on: December 22, 2017, 05:57:10 AM »
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Skimming through the new CSM 'dex, I read the "Quicksilver Swiftness" special rule for the Daemonettes and it reads:

"This unit always fights first in the Fight phase even if it didn't charge." - Codex Chaos Space Marines, 8th Edition, Page 131.

"So that means, no matter the Initiative...wait, where's Initiative?"

Skimming through both CSM 'dex errata, I found nothing on the Daemonettes, and 40k rulebook errata, I found absolutely nothing on Initiative.
So how is my entire army supposed to punch everyone in the face - first?

If you'd like to look for yourself, here are the links:
Codex Chaos Space Marine Errata - https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/40K_8th_ed_Update_Codex_Chaos_Space_Marines_ver_1.0.pdf
40k: The Rules Errata - https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/warhammer_40000_rulebook_ENG.pdf

Offline Squirrelmaster

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Re: Where's the Initiative...?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2017, 05:56:53 PM »
Normally, after all the charges, overwatch, etc. the current player picks one of their charging units and "activates" it — pile in, attack, consolidate. Then they pick another charging unit, then another, and so on until all their charging units have attacked.

Then, players alternate picking one unit at a time — starting with the current player — until one player has no more units left to fight with. Then the other player activates all of their other units (still one at a time), until all units that can fight have done so.

With "Quicksilver Swiftness", the current player picks a unit that charged, or a unit that has QS or a similar rule. After that one unit has activated, the other player can activate a unit that has QS or a similar rule (they can't have any charging units because it's not their turn). The continue alternating picking units that charged or have QS or similar, until one player has no more units left that charged or have QS or similar. Then the other player activates all of their other units that charged or have QS or similar (still one at a time though).

Only after all of that, players alternate picking one unit at a time from whatever's left (units that didn't charge and don't have QS or similar), starting with the current player.

Offline Chaos Lord Vrakon

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Re: Where's the Initiative...?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2017, 09:51:42 PM »
Could you give me an example so I may better understand? Seems like the player’s take turns attacking each other until one of them bites the dust, from how I’m reading this.

Offline Squirrelmaster

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Re: Where's the Initiative...?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2017, 06:21:18 AM »
Okay so "normal" example: Let's say you have a unit of bikers, a unit of raptors, a unit of cultists, and a unit of possessed. I have a devastator squad, a tactical squad, an assault squad, and a captain.

Turn 1: Your bikers charge my devastators, your raptors charge my tactical squad. You then pick a charging unit — lets say the raptors — and do all of their attacks. Then you pick another charging unit — the bikers — and do all of their attacks. You then have no more units left to attack with, so I can then have whatever's left of my devastators attack back, and then whatever's left of my tactical squad can attack back (or the other way around, if I prefer).

Turn 2: My assault squad charges your cultists, my captain charges your possessed. I activate my charging units first — maybe I attack with my assault squad, and then attack with my captain. After all charging units are done, we alternate, starting with me (because it's my turn). Maybe I have my tactical squad attack. Then you pick a unit — let's say your bikers. Then I pick a unit — my devastators. Then you pick your cultists. I now have no more units to attack with, so you can do your possessed and your raptors, whichever way around you prefer.

Turn 3: Everyone's in combat, and no-one charged but it's your turn. You pick a unit (possessed), then I pick a unit (assault squad). Then you pick a unit (raptors). Then I pick a unit (captain). We continue until one of us runs out of units, then the other player attacks with all their remaining units.



Now, an example where your whole army has Quicksilver Swiftness, or an equivalent rule. Lets say you have the same units, but you've chosen the "Emperor's Children" legion — which means all your units have this rule.

Turn 1: works out the same, all your units charged so they go first.

Turn 2: Same charges, this time though I have charging units and you have always-strike-first units. So how that works is, we alternate activating those units (starting with me), until one of us has no more of those units left. So maybe I activate my assault squad, then you activate your raptors. Then I activate my captain, then you activate your possessed. Now I have no more units left that charged or always strike first, so you continue activating your always-strike-first units until you're done — you activate your bikers, then your cultists. Now, no-one has charging or always-strike-first units to activate, so we move on to all the other units — starting with me because it's my turn. But actually, you have no more units left to activate, so I can just activate my devastators and tactical squad in whichever order I prefer.

Turn 3: No-one charged, but all your units ASF, so you just carry out all your attacks first (one unit at a time, but in whichever order you prefer), and then I carry out all my attacks (again, one unit at a time, but in whatever order I prefer).



A unit can only attack once in each fight phase, and anything killed before it's activated does not get to fight. Attacks from different units are never "simultaneous", but all attacks from a single unit usually are simultaneous.

If both sides have ASF, it doesn't matter who charged — just alternate picking one unit at a time.

The "counter-attack" stratagem can complicate things, but let's ignore that for now.

Offline Chaos Lord Vrakon

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Re: Where's the Initiative...?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2017, 09:29:34 PM »
Right on, thanks man. Appreciate the detail! In my opinion, makes Assault phase a bit kore viable.