Author Topic: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?  (Read 2959 times)

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Offline Ramses135

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Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« on: May 31, 2016, 11:52:38 AM »
Some time ago (and after a truly fierce competitive team tournament, in true ETC style), I was a bit sick of the level 40k tournament scene escalated to. As it seems, I was not the only one, because there is a new kind of tournaments happening in my vicinity - the organisers prefer to call them "semi-competitive tournaments". Well, the idea is, that it's supposed to be a tournament without all the bullsh*t GW allows now (for example Thunderdome, Warp Spider spam, Tau Piranha spam etc.).

While no limitations, which are traditionally used to limit the power level of armies attending the tournament (for example, "only two detachments" or "only two same units" etc.), really helped, they decide to try another approach. Let's make everything allowed, EVERYTHING. As many detachments as you want, all the Dataslates, Formations, Supplements, Forge World, just everything. But, with one thing in mind.

The organisers will ban everything which they deem to be "too much".

Yeah, the system is not perfect, but the first two tournaments in this style (first of them was aiming at low power level armies and was more for fun, the second of them was a bit more serious event) were incredibly successful, with 20+ people attending. And it's really the only way how to get the players on the power level you want them to be. Sounds good to me!

In 10 days, there will be another such tournament (there is a bit higher power-level expected). I am to expect a lot of super-heavies (limited to 1 per army) and I will be bringing my beloved Ulthwé:


1st DETACHMENT - Wraith Host (Formation)

Spiritseer

Wraithguard 5x + Wave Serpent
Wraithguard 5x + Wave Serpent
Wraithguard 5x

Wraithlord (Brightlance 2x)

Wraithknight (Suncannon + Scattershield)

2nd DETACHMENT - Aspect Host (Formation)

Warp Spiders 5x (Exarch)
Warp Spiders 5x (Exarch)
Swooping Hawks 6x (Exarch)

3rd DETACHMENT - Allied Detachment

Archon (Webway Portal, Haywire Grenade)

Kabalite Warriors 5x + Venom

Reaver Jetbikes 3x (Blaster)


So guys, how do you like the tournament format (and the army)?  :D
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 11:56:27 AM by Ramses135 »
We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.

Offline amras_falassion

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2016, 12:11:47 PM »
I'm really curious as to what is considered too much?

Can you give me an idea of what is considered too much with Eldar? (in terms of a list for the type of competition you mentioned)

Then I can benchmark against what I have in my various lists that I built during my bored states...

Offline Ramses135

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 12:29:54 PM »
I'm really curious as to what is considered too much?

Can you give me an idea of what is considered too much with Eldar? (in terms of a list for the type of competition you mentioned)

Then I can benchmark against what I have in my various lists that I built during my bored states...

Sure! On the team tournament I was speaking about, I faced a polish member of ETC team with a Warp Spider Hell army. Absolutely insane, consisted of something like this (if I remember correctly):

Eldar Warhost

Core: Windrider Host (Farseer Skyrunner, single Warlock Skyrunne, 3x3 Scatter Bikes, Vyper)
Command: Autarch Skyrunner
Auxiliary: Aspect Host (Warp Spiders 3x5): +1 BS
Auxiliary: Aspect Host (Warp Spiders 3x5): +1 BS
Auxiliary: Aspect Host (Warp Spiders 3x5): +1 BS
Auxiliary: Wraith Constructs (Wraithknight)

So, in total, 45 Warp Spiders. To be honest, I was playing a similar style army, but as I could get my hands on "only" 30 Warp Spiders, I was playing only 6 units of them, not 9. Instead of playing 3x3 Windriders with Scatter Lasers (as the polish guy did), I played 3x5 Windriders with Scatter Lasers. He had a Wraithknight, I had a Wraithknight and an Imperial Knight duo.

This kind of list is insanely powerful, but boring - and while it actually requires skill to be played on such competitive level, it's not much fun neither for me or my opponents.

Btw, my game versus that polish guy was a disaster. He won initiative and went second, with classic null deployment (there were only like two units of Warp Spiders on the table, hiding). Burned my first turn, doing nothing. Have to admit, he was a better player, but the dices made the game too easy for him (could get away with only a minor defeat, my army was really powerful, but the initiative roll was absolutely deciding here; also, when his Warp Spiders started to shoot at my Wraithknight, he neeeded only 2 units to kill it; on the contrary, I send 4 units after his and was not able to finish it, damn!)

After that, I had easy 4 other games. Wiped my opponents twice, got two major wins and once I agreed upon a tie (with Tau Piranha spam, which is another bullsh*t army).
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 12:34:52 PM by Ramses135 »
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Offline amras_falassion

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2016, 12:37:07 PM »
Oh.. that's powerfully one dimensional. Not really fun in my opinion to be on the receiving end of that  ;D

Thanks for sharing :)


Offline EBomb

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2016, 11:00:56 AM »
I don't like the format because I think there needs to be specific rules for what is "too much" or else it is too subjective.  I really like the army though.  I think it would be strong and fun to play.  What were you thinking of rolling on for the Spiritseer?  If you take the armour of misery on the Archon and put the Spiritseer in with the WWP guys you can get a really dangerous psychic shriek.  It helps with the other leadership based powers in telepathy and invisibility and shrouded would be nice too.  The army is good but I think you may have some trouble against obsec heavy lists.

Offline embolden

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2016, 01:30:30 PM »
Hope the tournament goes well, were you allowed to take this list?

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Offline Ramses135

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2016, 07:56:00 AM »
Hope the tournament goes well, were you allowed to take this list?

Yes, the list was allowed with no problems, although it ended on the more powerful end of the spectrum.

One thing I forgot to mention, it was a team tournament, with three players in each team. My teammates played Necrons (with some scarab farming) and White Scars.

1st place for us 8)

In the end, we had 21 players divided into 7 teams. Was a lot of fun and my Wraithknight did wonders (he has not killed that much, except for the game vs Orks, but was a great distraction unit).

Round 1 - Imperial Fists with three Drop Pods, some Lascannon Devastators and Lascannon Centurions, Lysander & Terminators + Ironclad Dreadnaught in a Stormraven.

- pretty easy, as my opponent's Stormraven with his CC units refused to arrive until Turn 4

Round 2 - Mechanicum

- really great mission from HH4, the Operational Reserves rule was in effect (opponent was Defender - he started only with half his units on the table, every destroyed unit of his was immediatelly returned into reserves; his reserves were arriving on 5+, but the chance was getting better by +1 for each VP scored by me as the Attacker), was crazy - shame to admit, I won on killing each and every model he had and subsequently blocking his entire board edge, thus preventing further reserves to arrive

Round 3 - about 50 Ork Boyz in transports

- mission was Headhunting from HH4, I had to kill 4 specific Ork characters; to be honest, my opponent misplayed this mission in a terrible way and 3 out of the 4 characters to be hunted were in one unit; during Turn 3, this deathstar unit (included Warboss, Painboy and Nob) disembarked from their transport - and I subsequently got tactical objectives Kingslayer (kill the warlord!) and Assassinate (kill some enemy characters!); so about 1600 pts of my Eldar turned their guns in the way of my opponent's deathstar and almost obliterated it (Wraithknight needed to rush into CC and make some stomping to finish the Warboss with Lucky Stick)

Round 4 - Space Wolves with White Scars Librarian Conclave - deathstar army (the most powerful roster in the entire tournament)

- muhahahaha, that was easy - poor opponent rolled with his 5 Librarians on Telepathy table and did NOT roll a single 5 for Invisibility... His deathstar was wiped few turns after that

Round 5 - Eldar Corsairs + Eldar Allies + Dark Eldar Allies

- the hardest game on the entire tournament, he played Balestrike corsair squad with 10x Darklance (with Corsair Jet POack, they have Relentless) and six units of Scourges, unit of Swooping Hawks with Autarch and some other MSU units )no Warp Spiders)
- almost wiped me, but Wraithknight saved me - had my opponent rolled better (and not like: 10x Darklance shot, 8x hit, only 2x wound, 1x save made... next turn repeat, with exactly the same numbers, and again), he would have wiped me, as my force was totally obliterated

All in all, I have not lost a single game. Some of that was pure luck, of course, some of that was the strenght of the roster, and I'm telling myself, that at least a small bit of the success could be accredited to my skill  ;D
We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.

Offline embolden

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2016, 11:25:59 AM »
Cheers for the bat rep, sounds like the list and the team did very well! Congrats!

Any tweaks/changes you'd make to this list?
AKA: Rob

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Offline Ramses135

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2016, 11:00:30 AM »
Cheers for the bat rep, sounds like the list and the team did very well! Congrats!

Any tweaks/changes you'd make to this list?

Thank you!

Actually, yes. As it was pretty easy to defeat some of my opponents (there were a few newbies, no need to stomp them so hard - the first three games were unreasonably easy, I faced two ultra-hard players only in round 4 and round 5), I will actually tweak it down next time - I'll probably:

- get rid of the Dark Kin allies
- replace one unit of Wraithguard with one big unit of Wraithblades
- add a Wraithseer (somehow... need to figure out, where will I get the points)

Probably need to keep the Warp Spiders, I need the speed and S6 firepower to complement the slow, tought Wraith units. I was playing similar concept on a far more serious 40k tournament back in 6e (on 1000 pts there were two Wraithlords and two units of old version of Warp Spiders) and it definitely works. Wraiths do hit hard, but as they are slow, you need to think a lot as for where they'll be needed next turn or two... Warp Spiders help you to mitigate this weakness.

I am inclined to try something as Combined Arms Detachment with Wraithseer (hidden in a Wraithblades unit), three Wraithlords and three units of Warp Spiders. Hammer & Anvil style army  :D
We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.

Offline embolden

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2016, 01:03:09 PM »
Why Wraithlords?

I've used them numerous times and been very underwhelmed... T8 3W and 3+ save doesnt stand up to much these days..
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Offline Ramses135

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2016, 03:40:21 PM »
Why Wraithlords?

I've used them numerous times and been very underwhelmed... T8 3W and 3+ save doesnt stand up to much these days..

Yeah, nothing spectacular. But in my experience, they get better and better in smaller and smaller games.

For example, they are brutal in 500 pts and still good in 1000 pts. And absolutely useless in 2000 pts games.
We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.

Offline Ramses135

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2016, 03:56:20 PM »
Btw, I will show that Wraithknight of mine, which I played on the tournament. Sadly, didn't finish it in time... Still, it got the attention, so I'm proud of it:

We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.

Offline amras_falassion

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2016, 09:55:38 AM »
You used the Suncannon Wraithknight?

Offline Ramses135

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Re: Something semi-competitive... Or is it not?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 01:04:46 PM »
You used the Suncannon Wraithknight?

Just look at the roster above  ;)

Yeah, why not? Was a lot of fun. I'm tired of competitive games - ale Wraithknight, even with the Suncannon, is far from being weak. He just can't stand the competition in the extreme environment. That's no reason NOT to play him from time to time  ;)
We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.