The Warmaster: Warhammer 40,000 Forum

Warhammer 40,000 Armies => Discussion: Space Marines => Topic started by: Fritz40K on July 20, 2017, 09:39:26 AM

Title: 8th Edition Chapter Tactics: Good vs. Bad
Post by: Fritz40K on July 20, 2017, 09:39:26 AM
So we now have a taste of Space Marine Chapter Tactics for 8th edition.


While I wished for something like 'zeal for Black Templars the re-roll charge is actually VERY nice- combined with fast assault marines it is almost a 100% charge. Same with deepstrike units. The re-roll give the redundancy army wide to really start building an all assault army.

While Imperial Fists are also VERY strong with the ignore cover, I feel like Iron Hands came out the best.

A 1 in 6 chance to shrug off a wound AFTER an armor save is big.
Title: Re: 8th Edition Chapter Tactics: Good vs. Bad
Post by: SharkoutofWata on July 20, 2017, 11:01:05 AM
Raven Guard is hands down the most powerful. It outright breaks a lot of opponents passively, forcing them to do something that their army might not be set up for. Forcing them to advance hard when maybe they didn't want to. Rock, paper, scissors is the name of the game and Raven Guard now have more armies where they can be the favorable matchup against. After fighting against Ghostkeels and Tau suits, -1 to hit can get crippling, even for Marine armies that have good BS. Plasma in particular because ridiculously dangerous thanks to how mods are now. Moving and firing with Heavy Weapons, multi wound model deterioration, suddenly you're hitting on 6s and the unit that does that is no longer a problem while they try to close the distance and be useful again.

Salamanders are a close second though but it's not because of them being more favorable in matchups. They simply don't have to rely as hard on aura buffs, which is a big benefit in army building. Being able to reroll hits, wounds and still have the CP reroll for Damage is a big bonus that will see a lot of use on things like Lascannon Dreads and Devastators. Yes, a better effect can be done with a Chapter Master equivalent but that's a lot of points for a babysitter unit, especially when we're talking about a backfield support unit. It's a good improvement to an army and there's very few times it won't do some sort of benefit.

Scars and Ultramarines are my next choices depending on the playstyle of the player, but both are 'build around or miss out' options. It's not like you can just throw in an Assault Cannon Dread and think that's good enough to Fall Back and shoot with as an Ultramarine. Hitting on 5s, whoop-de-do... For me, it's exactly what I want to match the playstyle I already use, but that's just a happy coincidence.

Imperial Fists are so strict that I'm not expecting much from them. It works great against Scouts and Lictors and... I'm having a hard time thinking of other models that get legitimately tougher in Cover. I feel like it's a minor buff at best, better than nothing, but not good enough to skew matchups in your favor. I've found that for the majority of my horde units that would benefit from cover, the units are too big to actually be fully in thenterrain and I just can't be bothered.

Iron Hands I definitely am not impressed by. A 6+ FNP is a slim chance. It's not going to save a Dreadnought that took a Lascannon to the face. It will take some luck tohave it impact the game at all, but it doesn't actually affect the army in any way. You don't build around that ability. If Iron Hands could use it on their vehicles too I'd be a little warmer to it, but it's just Infantry, Bikes and Dreadnoughts and I'd rather take something else with more of a chance of success.

An Edit: looks like the Iron Hands got a Strategem for being able to move and shoot Heavy weapons without penalty for moving, even on their vehicles.  While not a Chapter Tactic, that's a seriously powerful ability.  I wonder if the less useful Tactics will get beefy Strategems to make up for it.
Title: Re: 8th Edition Chapter Tactics: Good vs. Bad
Post by: Is duck on July 23, 2017, 05:03:16 AM
Though some chapter tactics might be stronger than others,I think that gw did a really good job of making each one of them strong in their respective areas of expertise. I play ultrasmurfs, and even though I think that ravenguard got the best tactic, I have no inclination to strip and repaint nor start up a ravenguard army.

However one big positive, or maybe a negative about this is that now you can use certain tactics to up the strength and leverage the advantages of certain units. For instance, I run Ultramarines, but I might add like an outrider detachment of white scars to use their superior bikes, or opting for Salamanders centurions instead of ultra ones just for the rerolls.
Title: Re: 8th Edition Chapter Tactics: Good vs. Bad
Post by: strawberry fist on July 25, 2017, 03:26:52 PM
I currently am running a loyalist death guard force led by Garro (inspired by flight of the Eisenstein) and in 7th I ran them as iron hands to resemble their hardship from living on their home world. With looking at these new traits I'm torn between Iron Hands and Ultramarines, which do you think would be best to represent my army?
Title: Re: 8th Edition Chapter Tactics: Good vs. Bad
Post by: thrst77 on August 10, 2017, 04:20:20 PM
I am a die hard iron hands fan, I love their fluff, their cold calculating nature and their use of dreadnoughts and armored columns. Yes, our 6+ FNP isn't that great but our stratagem is what makes me stick with them. this stratagem with a redemptor with double onslaught gatling cannons moves 8" and fires 18 heavy bolter shots on hitting on 3+ for 1CP. I think the chapter tactics are just a bonus on top of the statagem and In my personal experience, rolling a few six's in the game has kept a few more marines on the field. I mean sure, its only on a six but its better than not getting anything.
Title: Re: 8th Edition Chapter Tactics: Good vs. Bad
Post by: ANevskyUSA on August 26, 2017, 03:35:03 AM
I think the Imperial Fist chapter tactic should be their stratagem and their stratagem should be their chapter tactic.