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Offline Breng77

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Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« on: October 01, 2013, 02:08:07 PM »
So there really seems to be a bit of a lack of action on this particular section of the forum so I figured I would post up my review of the Daemon Book (Special Rules, Psychic powers, Warlord Traits, Units....) from a competitive point of view.  What that means is while no unit is completely useless, some are better than others generally speaking.

So lets start off with the Special Rules

Daemon - Every unit in this army is a Daemon, so what does that mean for you as the daemon player.  First off it means that you always have a 5++ invunerable save.  So even your vehicles have a built in save which can be very nice.  Furthermore it means that you cause fear, this is a so so ability.  Many units are immune to fear (ATSKNF and Fearless units, as well as other Daemons in this book.) and those that are not still ignore it on a passed LD test.  So it is a nice bump when you get it but it happens so rarely (and matters even less often.

Daemonic Alignment-  Every model in this book must be aligned to one of the 4 Chaos gods.  Furthermore this rule states that Daemons can only join units that are composed of Daemons of the same alignment as themselves.  So no Herald Of Tzeentch rolling with your Fleshhounds....furthermore it means that no ICs in this book can join units from allied detachments.  So if you ally into Chaos Space Marines (your only battle brother) you cannot put your herald into say a squad of Plague Marines.

There are 4 Alignments and I'll rate them on general usefulness

1.) Daemon of Tzeentch - Makes it easier to cast your psychic powers and allows re-rolls of 1s for your saves.  I rate this as number 1 simply due to some combinations that you can pull off with it.  For example if you cast invisibility on a unit of Tzeentch Daemons they can get a 2+ re-rollable cover save.  Or they can go to ground in terrain for a 3+ re-roll 1s (just short of a 2+ save).  Or using other wargear in the book you can achieve a 2++ re-rollable save!?!

2.) Daemon of Slaanesh - Gives you rending, fleet, you run faster (3 or 6").  This alignment just makes your Daemons super fast, and rending is always nice.

3.) Daemon of Nurgle - Gives you shrouded and Defensive Grenades, as well as slow and purposeful.  This is super useful on some units, and not so great on others.  I went back and forth with this and Slaanesh, but came out with this lower because....first slow and purposeful hurts, no running and no sweeping advance (also no overwatch if it matters) makes me sad. Second, shrouded has lost a bit of usefulness with the rise of Tau and Eldar who ignore cover a lot.

4.) Daemon Of Khorne - While Furious Charge is Decent, and Better hammer of Wrath is nice, it just does not measure up to the overall utility of the other alignments.

Daemonic Instability-  This rule does a few things for you, first the good: you auto pass Fear, Pinning and Morale Checks, but can still go to ground as you are not fearless(though you still cannot choose fo fall back using "our weapons are useless")  And the Bad: First units with this special rule cannot be joined by units without it....so no Chaos Lords running with your Daemon units :(.  Second, if you lose combat, you take a leadership test (and most Daemon units are low LD) and take wounds(with no saves) equal to how much you fail it by.  It also has special consequences: on Snake eyes you regenerate any wounds lost in combat thus far, but on a 12 you lose the whole unit no matter how many wounds remain.

Warp Storm -  The last Daemon Special Rule is The Warp Storm Table.  This is a table of random effects that the Daemon player rolls on during each of his/her shooting phases.  Most of these are fairly tame.  You roll 2D6 and on a 5-9 very little happens most of the time (though if you get hot with 6s that can change) as you produce shooting attacks that are much like Immotek the storm lords lighting.  Anything 4 or less is usually very bad for you as a Daemon Player.  And 10 or More is usually very good.  The exception to some of this is against other Daemons where 4 (-1 invul save) is good for you (generally) and 10 (+1 invul save) is bad because the effects last until the next time a player rolls on the table.  So if you roll +1 invul save for all Daemons and your opponent is Daemons he benefits from it during your turn, then it goes away on his turn, unless he also rolls for it.

Warlord Traits

Death Incarnate - Gives your warlord instant death in close combat, this is not bad, but not all that great.  If you get it on a herald with an ether blade it is not bad, on a greater Daemon many already have ways to cause instant death to many models (Axe of Khorne, Bale Sword, Smash, Staff of Change against T4 or less)

Destroyer of Mortals - Warlord and Unit get Hatred.  Again this is decent, but only really on a herald.  Which means you are not running a greater Daemon.  Hatred on your greater Daemon is nice I guess, but it limits the force multiplying power.

Herald Of Doom - Enemy units have -1 LD for Fear tests...as said before fear effects very few units so this one is not so great.

Immortal Commander - This is very good, re-rolling instability is very nice.  Probably the second best option on this chart.

Lord of Unreality - The selection you want, re-rolls on the warpstorm table.  This helps to get good things, but more so it helps to prevent bad things from screwing you.

Warp Beacon - Your warlord becomes a teleport beacon.  Not bad, but more often than not the things you are wanting to deepstrike won't be near your warlord.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 05:59:15 PM by Breng77 »

Offline Breng77

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Re: Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2013, 09:22:49 AM »
HQ Choices

Monstrous Creature HQ choics- We have 8 Monsterous Creature HQ choices, most of these are pretty good, but I'll rank them 8-1 as far as their overall usefulness.  Also something to consider if you don't take more than 1 MC as an HQ choice, which ever one you take will be your warlord because they all have higher LD than heralds.

8.) Skarbrand - What can I say this guy is a close combat beast 7 Initiative 10 WS 10 Attacks that always wound on 2s, roll 2D6 for armor pen and cause instant death (from his warlord trait).  He also has rage and hatred, and grants it to all models (friends and foes) with 12" of him.  SO wait this guy is #8?  Well he is not terribly fast to get to combat give that he is walking, other than rage and hatred he does not buff the rest of your army, he does not have the extra protection given by flying.  SO you have five 3+ save wounds before he goes down.  Also being a single model, he can get challanged and bogged down by some units.  Generally speaking he is not flying and Khorne so you won't see him.

7.)Kugath - I give him the nod over Skarbrand simply because, he gives re-rolls on instability as a warlord trait, shoots ok, and allows for nurgle Daemon Princes to be Heavy support choices...which are much better than Khorne.  Still it is unlikely you will see this guy despite is 7 toughness 7 wounds, because a regular GUCO is better because he can be a mastery level 3 Psyker, use biomancy, and get some greater gifts.

6.) Daemon Prince- These guys are pretty good, but they get expensive fast, 145 base, but require at least a 10 point Daemonic Alignment, then you will give them wings, and armor and all the sudden you are looking at at least 215 points, add in psyker levels and gifts and he is over 300 points.  For which generally a Greater Daemon is better.  This guy is a good HQ choice but really I only see him taken as nurgle with the Balesword as an HQ if a player is not running multiple Flying MCs.  This guy would rank higher but the fact that Greater Daemons unlock him as a Heavy choice drops his value in this slot.

5.) Bloodthirster - Again good Close combat monster, but I only ever see him as a second FMC, and most of the time I think that second slot is better filled by one of the other greater Daemons.  But he is a flying combat beast.

4.) Keeper of Secrets - on his own he is worse than the Daemon prince and Bloodthirster.  But he is the cheapest Monsterous Creature, can cast telepathy powers which are pretty nice, and Most importantly opens up slaanesh Daemon princes as heavy choices, which are one of the better Flying Daemon prince choices due to their greater magic weapon.

3.) Great Unclean one- if this guy was not slow and purposeful he would be really scarey A T7 monster with 4+ poisoned attacks, 3 Biomancy Spell (Iron Arm takes him to minimum T8 if not T9 or 10.) some additional gifts for durability and he is near unkillable.  But he is really slow, and cannot sweep so when models cannot hurt him and flee from combat he can do nothing about it.  But he also opens up Nurgle Daemon princes as Heavies, which is very good.

2.) Lord of Change - High Level Psyker with Divination, the lesser gift for Tzeentch makes him S8, he is good in Close combat, can shoot ok, is flying.  He really needs greater gifts for added durability, but he is quite good, and unlocks Tzeentch Princes as heavies.

1.) Fateweaver - He is a down graded Lord of change as far as stats, but a FMC with 5 wounds and a 4++ save, with Mastery level 4, and 8 psychic powers (4 Tzeentch + 1 from each discipline except telekinesis.)  Throw in Lord Of unreality warlord Trait allowing for re-rolls on the screw you warp storm table, and one D6 re-roll per player turn, he offers a lot of utility.  Also unlocks Tzeentch Princes.  Almost an auto choice in most competitive Daemon lists, because he helps to reduce the randomness of the army.
 

Offline Breng77

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Re: Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2013, 08:46:28 AM »
Herald HQ Choices

10.)Blue Scribes- these guys are not bad...but they are unreliable...and must replace a greater Daemon or all your other heralds...and not an IC so....yeah

9.) Masque - one of my favorite choices in the old Daemon book.  The good News she is fairly cheap at 75 points.  With Good stats WS and I 7 with 5 attacks....rending...she comes with her dances...sounds good right until you find out she is not an IC...which was true in the old book, but now she lacks eternal warrior and only has a 5++ save (albeit re-rollable).  IN the Old Book it was a 3++ and with Fateweaver around you re-rolled it...now she is essentially a one use throw away killpoint.  She if you take her you cannot take her as part of your 4 heralds per slot which means she is replacing all your other heralds or a greater daemon...

8.)CHangeling- this guy is ok, he is an IC and can be taken with other heralds.  His special ability to shapeshift into an enemy model has some cool uses....if he could take a disk he would actually be really rather good.

7.) Epidemius - Decent in a Nurgle army but he took a big hit now that his tally has a range.  He is pretty Tough, but really better in a themed list.  Also for the tally other than Soul Grinders and MCs Nurgle stuff is not that killy.

6.) Karnak- HE messes with Psykers, gives a unit rage, and scouts, good stats.  Downside is no Power weapon.  If only Blood Crushers were very good.

5.) Skulltaker- really good in challanges, eternal warriro, high WS BS and I (all 9!!!)his big down side is that his sword is AP 3....were it AP 2, if he had an Axe of Khorne (basically what he has except AP2.) I'd be all over this guy.  As it is though for the points a Standard Herald is probably better, because he is not required to Challange.

4.)  Herald of Nurgle- This guy has good S and T at 5 , can get biomancy powers (and nurgle powers are not bad either) and has some of the better locus' available (FNP, Poinsoned 3+) But lacks mobility.  You would love to attach him to Plague drones or Beasts of Nurgle....but he cannot take a steed with any kind of mobility (just the Palnquin, which while a good stat boost leaves a little to be desired) why did they fail to give him a Plague Fly Mount (based on the Plauge Fly stats it would give him +1 T +1 wound, +1 Attack and Jet Pack Cavalry).  I fhe could join a squad of those guys and give them FNP...it would have been very good....but he cannot unless he is slowing them down.

3.) Herald of Slaanesh- Great with Seekers granting re-rolls to hit or move through cover, and a Greater Ether Blade, she is cheap and effective.  I'd leave the psychic powers at home at LD 8.

2.) Herald of Khorne - In a Land of Wraithknights I think this guy is a must take for Flesh Hounds (otherwise if you get caught you die)  Kitted out with a Locus (rage or Hatred are both good) a Juggernaut, and an Axe of Khorne he is a close combat beast, and given that he might instant kill MCs in combat gives you an out if you get stuck in with a Riptide or worse Wraithknight.

1.) Herald Of Tzeentch- Can take Divination, part of one of the most powerful deathstars in the game (2++ re-roll screamers), being a jetbike on a disk makes him great for things like contesting objectives, taking line breaker etc.  Tzeentch shooting powers are pretty decent, and at least one locus (+1 S shooting) is ok.  But these guys work as buff/debuff machines, and with screamers can be very powerful.

Offline Breng77

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Re: Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 07:28:40 AM »
Troops-

I would have to say Troops is one of the weaker areas of our book.  The good part is for the most part our troops are cheap.  The bad part is that they tend to be fragile and not very effective offensively.  None the Less here goes my rating.

5.) Nurglings- They don't score or deny....that pretty much puts them on the bottom when I have all kinds of better things to choose from I want my troops to score.  Even then though I liked them in the last book but that was with Eternal Warrior and without instability.  Back then 3 of these guys could tarpit plenty of units for a long while.  Now if they lose combat they start to evaporate, and being only T3 means they get instant killed pretty easy.  Which also means that if they are in a multi-assault with other Daemon units those units die quickly as well.

4.) Bloodletters - Oh how the mightly have fallen.  Losing a point in toughness and an attack from the last book, and with 6e making them AP3 and nerfing furious charge...these guys just don't really have it any more.  They are ok for camping objectives because MEQ opponents won't really want to assault them off....but really just not worth the extra points over any of the other selections.

3.) Plague Bearers-  A lot of people like these guys, T4 with Shrouded, and defensive grenades.  They are certainly not bad, and can be very durable going to ground in cover.  However, they have a few downsides.  First, cover in a world of Tau and Eldar just isn't what it used to be and their T4 really doesn't make much difference here either.  Second, they are terrible in the assault.  Third, they cannot run.  This leaves them vunerable to templates if they deepstrike in and hard pressed to get to objectives if they don't (and if they scatter off it is even worse) In general I reserve my Daemon troops for as long as possible, meaning that if they are too slow to get to an objective it really hurts a lot.

2.) Daemonettes-  Fast and reasonably killy.  They are great for deepstriking in then running onto objectives.  Can assault other units if you need and are a threat to high toughness units.  Sure they lack durability, but if you get cover 3+ for going to ground isn't bad.  And as I said our troops are most durable in reserve, so the ability to act effectively when they come in is huge.

1.) Horrors - They can shoot (albeit not reliably well), they are the most durable troop choice.  I know people will argue for plague bearers but 3+ cover re-rolling 1s is almost as good as 2+ cover.  They can run.  If you use the grimoir they can hold the relic extremely well (if you play screamer star, you can swap to the horrors with the 2++ and keep the relic easily.  Between shooting and running they are effective coming out of reserve.  Provide another home for Tzeentch heralds (should your screamers die if you play screamer star).  All in all a good choice.

My preference is toward running Horrors and Daemonettes...though really for the most part you just need your troops not to die and as such any of them can be effective.

Offline Breng77

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Re: Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 03:22:31 PM »
Elites-  Or as I like to call it the generally Overcosted section of the Codex.

4.) Blood Crusher- These guys were excelent in the last book and last edition.  T5 with a 3+ save, wound allocation tricks, old fateweaver letting them re-roll saves...killing them was a tall task. That and Power Swords ignored armor saves. Now while they gained calvalry status, they lost their 3+ save, went to toughness 4, and AP 3.  These guys still kill stuff sure but they are too expensive for such fragile models at 45 points with a 5++ save.  For 3 points more I can get 3 Fleshhounds which will net me 6 T4 wounds, and 6 S4 attacks....sure not AP 3 but, that hardly matters when you die trying to make it to combat.

3.) Flamers-  The White Dwarf Flamers are gone, that combined with the shooting range FAQ makes these guys signifcantly worse overall.  They are still OK but S4 AP4 flamers on jump infantry is just ok not great.  They are usable but generally I'll take a pass.

2.) Beasts of Nurgle - How can you not like T5 4 wounds 2-7 poisoned attacks, It will not die, forcing disordered charges, Shrouded, and charging during the enemy turn....When it is slow and purposeful (no sweeping) and costs 52 points.  These guys are good, but when compared to the fast attack choices in the book, they cost too much.  I can get 6 Fleshounds for slightly less points than 2 of these guys (So we compare 8 T5 wounds to 12 T4 wounds, T4 comes out a bit on top.) Throw in the problem where a nurgle herald cannot keep up with these guys (FNP would be great for these guys), and it starts to be a bit iffy on dropping 200+ points on these guys.

1.) Fiends- These guys are good 3 wounds, Rending, -1 LD to psykers, pseudo grenades (-5 I to enemy on the charge) I 6, 3 Attacks.  But they still suffer from the same problem as everything else in this slot price at 35 points I can get 2 Flesh hounds or 3 Seekers for comparable Points (With the Seekers that is 3 T3 wounds, so not as durable, but 9 S3 rending Attacks at I5, WIth hounds I get 4 T4 wounds, and 4 attacks, and less instant death vunerability.)  As you can see these are the most favorable comparison, but they get expensive quick and I usually find I lack the points to add them in.

Offline sir_m1ke

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Re: Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 08:57:46 AM »
I've played Daemons competitively for about 8 months now, even having the opportunity to travel to Serbia with them for ETC (4 wins out of 6  :D) so I hope you dont mind if i chip a few ideas in here Breng

HQ:

I'm a firm believer in double-GD lists, outside of the much-maligned screamerstar lists heralds get too costly for their impact (a lot of their buff effects can be duplicated by psychic powers)

I never leave home without at least one LoC, if not two. Having used Fateweaver numerous times, I'm not impressed- too fragile for my liking if there is no LoS-blocking terrain (as often there isnt in many tournies) and often spends most of the game either flying on and off the board or chasing helldrakes

Keeper of Secrets is total win with invisibility and unlocking whip princes, but you need to be careful with his positioning- if he gets isolated he can easily be taken apart by Tau or Eldar lists

Elites-

Dont waste the points. Tried them all and there is nothing they do that a FA unit doesnt do better. Only run in mono-god lists

Troops-

2 squads of horrors is all you need to spend the points on (if you dont have a portaglyph in the list you need to take a long hard look in the mirror....). Most 5-game tournaments will feature either Purge (where troops are useless), Scouring or Big Guns in 3 of the 5 games- and thats where daemons can really shine

Make sure you have both plaguebearer and daemonette models available to pop out of the glyph in the right situations

FA-

I ran 45 flesh hounds at ETC and won many local tournaments with them (3x15). They are absolute beasts (no pun intended) against anything that isnt 2+ saves or MCs (especially wraith MCs or fecking iron arm nids) and can take a pounding, especially if supported by grimoire, forewarning and invisibility. The key to this sort of list is how you support the hounds effectively, especially if your opponent is running high-AV walkers or MCs- this is where you need to play your distances and use your MCs to smash them up- leave the hounds to chase the troops

Ideally you want at least 3-4 MCs in the list with a good selection of powers (LoC goes for Divination, KoS goes for telepathy, DPs go for telepathy or biomancy as well as grimoire)

Screamerstar is fun (for you, not your opponent...) but I personally prefer multiple units of Screamers (try 3 unit of 9 for lols) as I find your opponent either underestimates them or is more scared of them than hounds- more survivable, much faster and still pack a punch in combat

Ignore everything else in FA apart from these two- Drones cant kill anything, seekers melt to a light breeze (and really need herald support at all times) and Im not going to acknowledge the existence of furies and hellflayers

HS-

DPs are overcosted, squishy (when a Riptide has a decent shot at 1-shotting you in combat you know you have problems...) and rely on gifts and powers far too much...but unfortunately they are essential to the CD army as the take-all-comers swiss army knife unit. If you dont buy wings, at least 1 greater gift and 1 psyker level then dont bother taking them; to shave points you can drop armour (unless you are Tzeentch, in which case always buy the armour!) but you are still looking at 250-310pts for a solid prince

Soul grinders are a new love affair of mine due to the mess they can make of Tau, an army I find Daemons can struggle with. Sure some games the first shot will destroy them, but more often than not they are worth their weight in gold. How you mark them is down to equipment and army choice-

MoK- dont bother
MoS- torrent flamer and nothing else as part of a rush-list
MoT- skyshield and phlegm for a screamer star list
MoN- phlegm or torrent for a daemon-bomb list where you can DS into cover off an icon

Seeker chariots are awesome for their points....until you face any enemy with firepower. Brilliant against Orks and Nids (although watch for lootas and Hive guard) but most other lists its an easy First Blood kill- consider deep striking and turbo boosting off an icon

Burning Chariot........lol  ::)

Few random tips i've picked up-

- Dont put the grimoire on your warlord- thats a mission point you could save in a tight game
- Spend as few points on troops as you are comfortable with
- Dont ever turn up without at least 1 exalted gift
- Try and choose the table side with the most cover on it- we move quicker than anyone through terrain, but we never want to assault through it
- Allies for the most part are a waste of time. We can stand on our own two feet/hooves/tentacles. The best I can suggest is CSM running a small unit of cultists, a DP and a helldrake
- The most difficult armies you will face will be FW-heavy Tau, Iron Arm-heavy Tyranids and Wraith-heavy Eldar; against these lists dont be afraid to hold back, take your losses on the chin and push for the objectives hard at the end with everything you have
Team Northern Ireland 2013 (CD), 2014 (Eldar), 2015 (Eldar)

Offline Breng77

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Re: Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2013, 11:57:17 AM »
I agree with most of that with a few exceptions

I like Heralds of Khorne in Dog units (Kept fairly cheap) the Axe of Khorne gives them an answer to things like Wraithknights, which at least around me are plentiful.

Fateweaver is really there for this warlord trait and the re-roll (if you are running screamer star he is almost a must though I want to get him out of my list because I really don't love him beyond that.)  I also tend to see a reasonable amount of LOS blocking terrain though.

Elites- I can see them if you are not running Monsterous creatures in your list, but usually they are the last add.  Fiends can find a place in a rush list.

Troops- I am not a huge believe in the minimum troop game.  But that is dependent on tournament missions, the portaglyph is good but not terribly reliable.  I usually try to go 3 Troop units + glyph because in longer events you tend to run into multiple objective missions where fast or heavies don't score (and it is tough to fit in lots of both fast and heavies in many lists.)

Fast- I rate seekers as they do pretty well against MCs, they are very fragile, but work decent in the right list.  I agree with herald support though, they need move through cover, but that is all I usually give the herald and keep her cheap.

Heavies- I agree completely here

Allies- CSm only really in FMC lists for a prince and Drake.  Beyond that the fact that you cannot join units with battle brothers is the big downside here.  Though I have seen IG work ok as well.

Overall though some good insight

Offline Arrakis-to-Dune

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Re: Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2013, 07:44:30 PM »
Great post Breng77. I am really liking the Demon codex as it has so many different play styles. Whats more it really fun to play & quite rewarding.

I would say for Troops, mass unit of Bloodletters & Daemonettes Deepstriking off Icon can be pretty effective but it does take practice & good timing to pull off. As they are fairly cheap you can build a list to present your opponent with multiple threats that have to be dealt with.

I personally run a Tzeentch FMC list as I didn't want to spend to much money building another army.  ;D
I have been finding that putting the points into LoC's & DP's can make or break the game. They are a huge point sink but when you get a few good spells & greater gifts they're survivability skyrockets. Then are the games where you don't get want you want & its a struggle not to get tabled. 

What are your thoughts on the Skullcannon? I play against a  fair bit of Dark Eldar & Eldar & the S8 Large Blast Ignores Cover sounds pretty tasty for wreaking skimmers.

Offline Breng77

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Re: Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2013, 08:42:52 AM »
So since I got posted up on Teh Blog for this I guess I better finish it.

Fast Attack

6.) Hellflayer of Slaanesh - Can't say that I have every really used this unit.  That said an AV 11 two hull point vehicle with a 1 wound rider is just not all that good.  HAving rending Hammer of Wrath is ok but it is just not going to live very long.

5.) Chaos Furies- I actually like these guys quite a bit, I think they have the ability to be a pretty good assault unit.  They are super cheap, and fast.  That said without a herald if they lose combat they die quickly.  But I could see running them with a buffing herald (maybe tzeentch with Grimior, going for a cheap 20 wound squad with a 2++) the problem is they are easy to tarpit.

4.) Plague Drones- Good, with some good options, but expensive at 14 points per T5 wound, slow and purposeful hurts on an assault unit.  Also why can a nurgle herald not ride on a fly?  Much like beasts if these guys could get feel no pain they could be so good...but they really cannot do so effectively.

3.) Seekers- Super fast, lots of rending attacks, these girls are good.  However they are the definition of a glass cannon.  At 12 points per T3 wound they die to a stiff breeze (or a bump in the road with dangerous terrain checks) these guys need a herald to give them move through cover.  With other threats they provide a good answer to high toughness units with their rending attacks.

2.) Screamers - 12.5 points per T4 wound, the ability to make armor bane AP2 attacks, jetbike speed, and herald buffing make these guys arguably the best unit in this slot.  However the fact that they really need support to be great drops them down a peg.  Screamer star with a herald though is one of the most competitive builds.

1.) Flesh hounds 8 points for a T4 wound, super fast with scout, high WS, furious charge.  These guys are great.  The only downside is no answer for things like walkers or high toughness monsters.  A herald helps to sure up the weaknesses here (AP2 instant death axe means things like Wraith Knights need to think twice.).  Probably the best unit in the book.

Offline Breng77

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Re: Review of Chaos Daemons (competitive)
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 12:51:48 PM »
So finishing this up with heavy support.

4.) Burning Chariot of Tzeentch- this unit is basically unplayable within the rules....it is terrible.  Its weapon is techically fired by the rider.  It is a heavy weapon so if you move you must snap shot.  Its also a template...so it cannot snap shot...just awful.

3.) Seeker Cavalcade= these are ok but AV 11 open topped Vehicles just don't survive in todays meta, even with 4 hull points.  Sure 225 points for 12 Hull points with a ton of rending hits seems ok...but The just die too quickly.

2.) Skull cannon - fast long range - High BS S8 blast, that gives you grenades...decent enough...but not amazing.

1b.) Soul Grinders-  These are good, Nurgle marked with Plegm (S8 AP 3 Large blast) can be tough to kill and have good killing power, they help to break up gunlines.  Slaanesh marked are also pretty good, with the torrent flamer...they can rush the opponent with your army.

1a.) Daemon Prince- Very good if expensive.  Requires a unit to change his FOC to this slot.  Anything but Khorne is good (which is a theme for most of this book really).  They need wings, armor, rewardsm and psychic powers to work well...But when they do they are very effective.