Author Topic: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.  (Read 2664 times)

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Offline Breng77

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Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« on: January 24, 2014, 01:43:48 PM »
So recently with my Daemons I have been trying to change up my list (screamer star just often isn't that much fun.)  My first change was to Drop Fateweaver....Yeah I know he is good.  Less times getting Screwed by Warpstorm, getting his re-roll...pretty good Psychic powers.  My problem with him is he is 300 points....and he dies....a lot. (or he hides, at which point you are essentially playing 300 points down.

At that point I was running screamer star without Fateweaver, with a Flesh hound unit, a unit of seekers, and 2 Soul Grinder.  But I was finding that the seekers just die too quickly.  So not wanting to spend additional money, I looked into what units I could add from the models I had and I settled on Beasts of Nurgle.

T5 4 wound beasts, that never give charge bonuses to your opponent, that average 4.5  poinsoned 4+ attacks each (5.5 on the charge) with shrouding, and it will not die.  Seems like a good unit.

I also thought that I wanted to include a herald with the Feel No pain Locus, to add even more durability.

So I did this, ran a unit of 5 with a herald so 22 T5 wounds with feel no pain.  But in my first game I found that while the unit is durable...it is just not very killy.  Playing against a space marine bike army I was averaging 22-23 attacks each round + the herald.  But with WS3....I was hitting only half the time...and against T5 I was wounding only half the time...so about 5-6 wounds...which after armor kills 1-2 marines....for ~300 points this is a bit lack luster.

At that point I was ready to drop these guys....they just don't do much damage, but I stuck with them...Added another beast, and added Lv 1 psyker, a greater reward and a lesser reward to the herald.  The way I saw it was this gets the herald AP 2 with an etherblade (or instant death with a bale sword if armor is not an issue), and the psyker level either rolls on biomancy (where, Enfeeble, and Warp Speed are great, Iron Arm is decent, endurance is ok for other units in your army etc.) or nurgle (miasma of pestilence is good, others are ok)  and ran into another SM bike army....and this unit was great.  I rolled warpspeed so the herald was running around with 6 AP 2 S6 attacks.  Added to the beasts, attacks now I was killing bike squads in a turn (the 2 wounds from the beasts, and 2 or 3 from the herald.) and taking very little damage in return.

So going forward I am looking at running this unit as the core of my army.  It is much less luck dependent than screamer star (especially without Fateweaver, because if you don't get the grimoir off screamers evaporate quickly), of my thought is to run the followng

7 Beasts (so 28 T 5 wounds, with Shrouded, and FNP from the herald)
2 Heralds of Nurgle (Level 1, Greater Reward, one with FNP locus)
Epidemius

Epidemius, though gimicky can make this unit quite strong.  Very early getting +1 S, (so you re-roll wounds against most things), +1 T (so making most things wound you on 4+ or worse, and defeating all but force weapons as far as instant death (and a few other instant death weapons).  2+ poison, makes them very killy, and 4+ FNP....even more durable.

Now it has a few bad match-ups.  Mass ignores cover hurts...it is not terrible...but negating shouding makes it less durable.  Grey Knights force weaponing these guys in CC, could make them explode to instability.  That said, if you can get warp speed on a herald you can kill a number of GK early.  In CC unless I get to T6, MCs can smash the squad etc.

But other units in the army will be trying to compensate for some of these weaknesses.  I won't say that this is a GT winning idea...or even the best daemon list...but it is different and interesting.

Offline Breng77

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2014, 08:17:27 PM »
Took this list to a tournament today.  Ended up 2-1, with 2 massacres and a minor loss.  The beast performed extremely well (I think I lost 1 beast all day.  With soul grinders it is breath easy to get the tally count up, the game I  lost was wave serpent heavy  eldar mostly because vehicles don't count for the tally.

Offline Breng77

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 01:50:06 PM »
Just for those interested the Current list I am running with Beasts at 1850 is

Great Unclean One (Level 3, Exalted Reward, Greater Reward)

Epidemius

Herald of Nurgle (Level 1, Greater Reward, Lesser Reward)
Herald of Nurgle (Locus of Fecundity(FNP), Greater Reward, Lesser Reward)

7 Beasts of Nurgle

10 Plague Bearers
10 Horrors

2x Nurgle Soul Grinder w/ Plegm

Daemon Prince of Nurgle (2 Greater Rewards, Lesser Reward, Flight, Armor, Level 3)

The Daemon Prince is the answer to things like Wraithknights, using the bale sword to instant death them in combat, the Exalted reward on the GUCO is usually for a portaglyph due to minimal troops. The rewards on the Heralds are usually taken for CC weapons (AP2, 2 weapons for +1 attack), but sometimes I'll take Adamantium will.  Grinders Use blast to get the count up early once beasts Get to T6, they are really hard for most things to deal with.  The GUCO usually tries to stay in Epi range so he is T8 minimum, can get 4+ FNP etc.  He works well as counter assault against things Beasts don't like fighting (walkers, Wraith knights if below T6 (if I'm at T6, this squad will murder most MCs, yesterday against Tau I went through 3 Kroot squads, and was assaulted by 2 Riptides which I went on to kill in CC.)

At 2k points, I would likely Drop the Portaglyph and 2 Lesser rewards (probably on the DP and one herald), and Pick up 2 more troop squads, then give a second greater reward to the GUCO.  I really don't like relying on such minimal troops at 1850, as the portaglyph is not reliable, but sacrificing elsewhere hurts quite a bit.

Offline Angelic

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 08:31:44 PM »
I am by no stretch of the imagination a Daemons player, but I really like what you're doing here, when I first saw these guys I thought they would be quite scary, but as the internet drilled the 'dex it seemed they were a little lacklustre, but what you've done here is awesome. I can't help but comment when someone takes a unit no one seems to like and makes it useful, good on you +1~
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Offline Breng77

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 09:33:55 PM »
Well they are quite pricey points wise, and rely on cover so if Tau or eldar can hit them early it can be bad, but on tables with Los blockers, I have found them to be a lot more durable than khorne dogs (though not as fast.), especially if you get them to T6.

When first looking at the book epidemics was considered bad because his range was limited, and he was slow as are other nurgle heralds, but it is surprisingly easy to conga line them into assaults.  The biggest issue is that you give up fleet for your charges.

Offline Helcarexe

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 12:24:25 PM »
Nice Nurgle list and very effective as I just love beasts.  What would you add to a 2000 point list, as I was looking at adding Flamers or more troops.
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Offline Breng77

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 12:40:05 PM »
At 2k I am looking at

Dropping the Exalted reward on the GUCO to a Greater reward, Dropping 1 Lesser reward on One of my heralds, and the lesser reward from the Daemon Prince (so that gives me 180 points total to work with)

Then using that to pick up 2 units of troops (Probably another Plague Bearer Squad, and Another Horror squad.)

I really don't like the Portaglyph...it is not reliable, I use it at 1850 because I would need to give up too much for another troop unit.  But at 2k I can bring those extra troops and not need the portaglyph.

My other thought was possibly to drop lessers from 1 Herald and the Prince, add one troop unit, and Palequins for my 2 heralds.  But I think the Extra troops are probably better.

Offline Breng77

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2014, 10:31:21 PM »
So got another game in today with this list.  Against Serpent Spam Eldar

Farseer
5 Serpents with Dire Avengers
3 Jetbikes
2 Wraith Knights
2 x 6 Swooping Hawks.

Dawn of War Deployment

Mission was: Kill points  + you scored one point if a unit was on one of 5 objectives at the end of your opponents turn.

I rolled pretty good on my powers getting Iron Arm and Warp Speed on both My Daemon Prince(who also got endurance) and Great Unclean one.  I did not take the portaglyph as I focused on winning KPs, and instead rolled Warp Tether, and Re-roll invuls on my GUCO (nothing good for warlord trait)

My prince took a Bale Sword and rolled +1 wound it will not die.

I won the roll to go first and took it as I wanted to be able to move up and get my powers up.

Turn 1 : move up behind the Center LOS blocker and shot with one Soul Grinder doing nothing as it was night fighting.  My opponent turned around and put 2 Glances on one Grinder, and Tried to ground my prince (who had failed Iron Arm) with a Wraithknight who hit but failed to wound, and I passed Grounding. He Sky leaps his Hawks

Turn 2: My Prince Gets IA and Warp Speed on, both my troops come on but I mishap the horrors back into reserve (somewhat on purpose, I put them in a place where mishap was likely.), and deepstrike my bearers into a ruin for cover, far away from his serpents. I roll snake eyes on warp storm, and end up putting 2 wound on the beasts.  I assault his Wraith Knight with my prince and instant death him (6 wounds for the tally), and consolidate back out of LOS ( a mistake by my opponent to place the Wraith knight near an LOS blocker. ON his turn his Swooping Hawks come back down, and target my Plague Bearers, killing all but one with shooting and Grenade packs.  He also disembarks his farseer and 5 Dire Avengers on an objective hoping to draw my prince into the open.  He also kills my Soul Grinder.

Turn 3:  My prince moves to assault the Farseer squad (too juicy with warlord, and 2 KPs, also on an objective) My last Plague Bearer moves onto an objective.  My beasts move and charge one Hawk squad, while my remaining soul grinder shoots at the other (causing 1 wound.),  My horrors mishap again and my opponent places them right in front of all his serpents.  WarpStorm is Slaanesh, I kill one waveserpent with a pen explosion that kills 3 DA in the Farseer squad that had gotten out.  I kill all 6 Hawks with my beasts, and the Farseer (who challanged, trying to save his squad) but they pass morale (on a 6) and my DP is safe in combat. Tally now at 16.  On his turn he skyleaps again, his serpents shoot at the horrors who make a bunch of saves, but die, and he flat outs a few serpents to try to grab objectives.  On his turn my DP finishes his Dire Avengers (Tally at 18).

Turn 4:  My DP and Beasts each Kill a Wave Serpent.  On his turn his jetbikes come in he drops a few squads on objectives and uses serpents to block my charges on them.  But my one Plague bearer lives to score a point.  He scores one objective point this turn.

Turn 5:  I kill 2 Dire Avenger squads, my DP kills a serpent and my GUCO puts 5/6 wounds on his wraith knight.  But he scores 2 objective points and kills my soul grinder (which I supidly charge into his Swooping hawks forgetting the haywire grenades, even though I only have 1 HP left. He kills my last plague bearer.  The game ends

He has first blood, and Line Breaker, 3 Objective points, and Kill points for my 2 troop squads and 2 Soul Grinders. For 9 points (might have been 10, I might be off on his objective points.)

I have Warlord, 1 objective points, but have killed 4 Serpents, 3 Dire Avenger squads, a Wraithknight, and his far seer for 10 points (might have been 11, I might have one more objective point as well.)

If the game went on to 6 he probably picks up 2 objective points, but I get 2 more KPs and line breaker.  If we go to 7 it is likely a tie as I probably cannot move over to kill his last squads fast enough. and he would pick up 2 more objective points.


Offline Breng77

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2014, 12:12:15 PM »
I ran this list at a 5 game GT this past weekend.  Ended up 3-2 (lost ot White Scars in the Relic, and Ovesastar).  A few things I learned with this list.

1.) I need to be agressive with the beasts I lost to the White Scar Army by not being agressive enough because he had a rune priest with Jaws.  I can afford to lose some beasts, they are super durable (I think I lost 3 total in the weekend.)

2.) Tied to the first topic, they hit a lot harder than I expect a lot of the time, and can beat most units in the assault.

3.) I would like more troops 2 troops at 1850 was very tricky to stay in games.

Offline Ordo Bob

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2014, 11:21:03 AM »
How would you deal with Seer-council?

Offline Breng77

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 11:31:31 AM »
Ummm....lose most likely, unless he did not get fortune.

In all honesty I'm not super sure how I could handle a seer council, I would probably try to target the things around it.  If they don't get fortune I think I can do ok.  With Fortune, the AP2 in the assault might do ok damaging the council, but realisitcally their flesh bane likely wins out in that fight (maybe try to grimoir the beasts, and fight it out.), I would also need the baron not in base with a herald.  Depending on what the prince has as far as powers maybe he or the GUCO go in as well, trying to get more hits on Warlocks, who have a 4+ with a re-roll against my AP2, but it is better than a 2+ re-roll.

Or you know hope for a couple 11s on the Warpstorm, to get lucky and kill farseers, or key warlocks.

Offline Kayreios

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 07:02:36 PM »
Solid list, speaks for itself if you can win against serpents and wraith knights.

A local runs a list like this, he actually uses the flying DPs or the big flies to screen the other units with 2+ cover (can't remember which).

If you could get the portal that spawns horrors, you could solve that troop problem.   Or allied cultists in reserve.


Offline Breng77

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Re: Branching out: Making Beasts of Nurgle Work.
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2014, 07:43:24 PM »
Yeah the GUCO runs an exalted reward for the portal in objective missions.  But it is unreliable as you need to roll to make it work and then get a random number of models.  Wraith Knights so long as they don't hit the Beasts early are pretty easy to kill with the GUCO or Prince, or beasts with T6 from the tally.  Serpents is very terrain dependent, if I can get some LOS blocking, I can assault the serpents and do damage...if not then I can have some trouble.  It is much the same with Tau, if I can make it to say 24" away with some safety I can do a bunch of damage, if it is an open field I struggle a bit.