Author Topic: Getting Tabled  (Read 2720 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mattblowers

  • Brother Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 389
    • View Profile
    • My Gaming Blog
Getting Tabled
« on: July 17, 2013, 10:55:33 AM »
Last night in our league we were discussing whether or not you can be tabled with flyers in ongoing reserve.  If you fly off the board and they kill your last unit on the table, do you lose?  The rule states that if the game ends with them in reserve they count as destroyed, but would the lack of board presence mean auto-lose?  We concluded that you would lose, but we were not confident it this assertion and we couldn't find in FAQ or errata.  What say you?
Famous last words: "All I have to do is not roll ones...."

Check out my painting blog at http://lilliputianwars.blogspot.com/

Offline IDICBeer

  • Supporter
  • Supporter
  • Chapter Master
  • *
  • Posts: 692
  • The Wonders of Warhammer 40k
    • View Profile
    • IDICBeer 40k
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2013, 11:14:18 AM »
Last night in our league we were discussing whether or not you can be tabled with flyers in ongoing reserve.  If you fly off the board and they kill your last unit on the table, do you lose?  The rule states that if the game ends with them in reserve they count as destroyed, but would the lack of board presence mean auto-lose?  We concluded that you would lose, but we were not confident it this assertion and we couldn't find in FAQ or errata.  What say you?

Auto lose

Offline eris

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2013, 11:28:27 AM »
It's on brb page 122. the last sentance of the para above the 'ojectives' heading.

"Likewise, if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins."

note that it's game turn not player turn. so if you're going second, you'll get your turn which will start with no models on the board.

Offline mattblowers

  • Brother Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 389
    • View Profile
    • My Gaming Blog
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2013, 04:31:24 PM »
It's on brb page 122. the last sentance of the para above the 'ojectives' heading.

"Likewise, if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins."

note that it's game turn not player turn. so if you're going second, you'll get your turn which will start with no models on the board.

I wish it said gameboard instead of battlefield.  Some might argue the point.  Thanks for the reference.
Famous last words: "All I have to do is not roll ones...."

Check out my painting blog at http://lilliputianwars.blogspot.com/

Offline Neojarlaxe

  • Chapter Master
  • *
  • Posts: 566
    • View Profile
    • Campo de Batalla (Battlefield)
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2013, 02:51:05 AM »
Agree with previous answers. Ongoing reserve is not on the battlefield.
You are invited to my Blog and my YouTube Channel:
http://figurasvictorq.blogspot.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/neojarlaxe

Offline Fritz40K

  • ADMIN
  • Primarch
  • *
  • Posts: 1358
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2013, 10:34:19 AM »
GW has always had these little auto-lose situations...

Remember the all infiltrating kroot list from back in the day- if you reserved your army or if it was Dawn of War and you went second the Kroot infiltrated on the back line of the table edge across the board and then you couldn't come on so you just lost.
Though my men may sleep, and my ships rest at anchor, my foes know full well that big guns never tire...

Look on my works ye mighty, and despair...

Offline eris

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2013, 11:05:29 AM »
Happy days, fritz. ;)

Ongoing reserve is not on the battlefield.

Indeed, the rule says as much: "enters reserve part way through the game, such as a flier leaving the battlefield"

Offline Theguy

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 182
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2013, 11:38:20 AM »
There is a BRB faq that specifically addresses this.

Offline eris

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2013, 11:52:11 AM »
There is a BRB faq that specifically addresses this.

Why would they put it in the FAQ when it's clearly written in the brb?

no models on the battlefield at the end of a gameturn = lose.
models in ongoing reserves are not on the battlefield.

not sure how the argument could be made otherwise, but happy to hear someone try and make it.

Offline mattblowers

  • Brother Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 389
    • View Profile
    • My Gaming Blog
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2013, 09:23:08 PM »
Flyers are a new entity, hence the question.  Also, they go into ongoing reserves which is also a new category.  Technically they are on the battlefield, they are just off the gameboard and are circling around.  I agree that this should be a tabled loss but I wanted to check what this forum thought as most guys here seem to have a good grasp on the convoluted rule minutia.
Famous last words: "All I have to do is not roll ones...."

Check out my painting blog at http://lilliputianwars.blogspot.com/

Offline Joe the Ripper

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2013, 10:24:04 PM »
About on going reserves, it's in the brb and I think it was also FAQ. If the game turn ends with nothing on the board, you lose. Everything in reserves ( to include on going reserves) are destroyed. Battlefield is considered the actual board.

Offline eris

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2013, 06:32:09 AM »
Technically they are on the battlefield, they are just off the gameboard and are circling around.

sorry, but that's just straight up incorrect. the ongoing reserves rule very clearly states that they have left the battlefield.. there's not a lot of wiggle room here and redefining what 'battlefield' means doesn't help much when the rule literally says that to enter ongoing reserve you leave the battlefield.

Offline Breng77

  • Brother Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 493
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2013, 07:28:11 AM »
If you look at the part of the rules about setting up a game you will see them literally define the battle field as the table(describes things like battlefield size.). If you are off the table you are not on the battle field.

Offline Theguy

  • Battle Brother
  • *
  • Posts: 182
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2013, 11:30:15 PM »
FAQ = Frequently asked questions. There was no arguement for either side.

Offline mattblowers

  • Brother Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 389
    • View Profile
    • My Gaming Blog
Re: Getting Tabled
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2013, 11:44:49 PM »
FAQ = Frequently asked questions. There was no arguement for either side.

Thanks, I see it.  Case closed.
Famous last words: "All I have to do is not roll ones...."

Check out my painting blog at http://lilliputianwars.blogspot.com/