Author Topic: 8th Edition Dark Angels Army list  (Read 2114 times)

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Offline Charley359

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8th Edition Dark Angels Army list
« on: July 04, 2017, 11:34:06 PM »
While I haven't had any chances to play the 8th edition in a tournament setting.  I've been playing a 2000 point army practice event against my son running Ultramarines led by Roboute Guilliman, my son-in-law with Magnus and 3 chaos Knights and their friend running Blood Angels with 6 Storm Ravens. 

While they're helping me make sure I don't forget any steps to use per turn.  I'm helping them fine turn their armies as the 3 of them along with 2 others are heading to a major 40k tourney event in Memphis, TN in about 10 days. 4 or 5 years ago my eldest son came back as the overall winner with his Blood Angels army from this event.

This is what I ran facing them. I came in at 1996 points broken down into 3 detachments and giving me 5 command points.

VANGUARD Detachment: 803 points
HQ-Belial w/Storm Bolter and MC Power Sword
EL-DW Squad, Sgt: Storm Bolter/Power Sword, Assault Cannon/Power Fist, Storm Bolter/Chain Fist, Storm Bolter/Power Fist X 2.
EL-DW Knights, Sgt: Flail of Unforgiven/Storm Shield & Watcher, Mace of Absolution/Storm Shield X 4
EL-DW Venerable Dreadnought w/Assault Cannon/Storm Bolter

OUTRIDER Detachment: 797 points
HQ-Sammael on Corvex
FA-RW Bike Squad, Sgt: Chain Sword, Twin Bolters, Bolt Pistol/Twin Bolters X 3, Plasmagun/Twin Bolters X 2
FA-Black Knights Squad, Sgt: Power Sword/Plasma Talon, Corvus Hammer/Plasma Talon X 3, Grenade Launcher/Plasma Talon
FA-Land Speeder Tornado w/Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter

PATROL Detachment: 396 points
TRP-Tactical Squad, Sgt: Combi Grav, Grav Gun, Bolters X 3
HS-Devastator Squad, Sgt: Power Sword/Grav Pistol, Missile Launchers X 2, Lascannons X 2

Except for the Devastator Squad which was an optional unit choice.  Everything was the required units.  I was trying to put in more units for the Patrol list, but when I finished building it I found all of them I choose put me nearly 400 points over.  So after dropping them I had points to put in the Dev Squad. 

This was my first attempt as building an army in the new edition and I felt I did a decent job.  In two games against the Ultramarines I held my own until the 5th turn in the first game when my last piece fell.  But in the second game my dice abandoned me as I think I rolled more 1's the all the other numbers combined.  It was over much quicker.  In the first game I did feel good that Guilliman was down to 1 wound, but he did a great job of protecting him in the second game. 

Against the Chaos Knights & Magnus.  They blew me to pieces before I could mount any real offense against them.  They will be very tough to stop unless you are built specifically to fight them.  Against the Blood Angels I played defensively since he was transporting his army all over and we were even until his final turn which gave him the win. 

I can't really say to much about their armies in case any of you will meet them in battle.  But as long as they want me to help them prepare I will fight them. 

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: 8th Edition Dark Angels Army list
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2017, 12:42:23 AM »
Because you're going against competitive armies I'll treat it as a competitive list and tear it apart properly, cause from a power standpoint, there is a lot to be desired.

What's the point of the Patrol?  You're doing nothing with the Tacticals as far as I can see and the Devs are only modest.  Frankly, I think you're putting too many points into big fancy characters that give fairly basic buffs.  Samael is good and all and of the three I think he would be more valuable with your army playstyle from what I'm seeing here, but having three big names at 2k is excessive.  Commit to one, drop the other down to an Interrogator Chaplain or Company Master depending on if you're going for a stabby or shooty unit for the character.

In my experience playing against Dark Angels, you need to commit to a playstyle and theme.  Going down the middle just means your units are weak and you can't hold any real section of the table.  I've had way more trouble against either Greenwing, Deathwing OR Ravenwing, but I've haven't been stopped by a mix of the three.

The deathwing Squad is the Dark Vengeance set obviously and that's a poor build now.  Assault Cannons from a unit without ignoring the -1 BS is putting out a whole whopping two wounds before armor against MEQ, and at only a whimpy -1, they've got a good chance to save it.  It's worse against bigger things obviously and absolutely abysmal against things that give a further -1 to your BS, as a lot of armies are capable of.  Even Twin Assault Cannons are garbage now point for damage.  The Chainfist is two extra points of eh and in a competitive list it doesn't need to be there.  I like it for the guaranteed average damage, but frankly this whole unit doesn't need to be there.

The Deathwing Knights have a purpose, I'll grant you that.  They're beefy and hard to kill and a bad roll for your opponent means they are there to stay.  Incredibly annoying to have to put down but without some real support...  I've hated seeing a unit of them with an Interrogator Chaplain and Ancient and they can usually just flat out murder whatever they don't like.  Hitting on 3s with their Mace is a bigger bonus than I had given them credit for, but they need that extra attack to really do some slaughtering, which means the Ancient has to make the charge too.  Not an easy task every time so your mileage will vary compared to my opponent who slaps them in a Land Raider Crusader.

The Dreadnought hits on 3s after moving with its six shots...  I'm less than thrilled.  Autocannons or bust if you ask me.  Less shots, more Rend, twice the damage.  Taking an Assualt Cannon over the Autocannon is a poor choice.  I'd look pretty hard at the Deredeo though if your area does Forge World.  Lots of Autocannons.

Samael will make your Ravenwing more powerful.  A Ravenwing Apothecary will make them last longer.  The two together will be annoying as all hell to kill.  You don't get an Invul, which is why I say Ravenwing is the weakest of the three, but that doesn't mean Ravenwing are weak.  If you build up a Black Knight squad right witht he right character support, they can just walk through whatever they want to walk through.  Hang out at max range and blast with some Plasma Talons and MEQ won't stand a chance while reviving your own guys.  I can't stress enough how annoying that is to have friggin reviving multiwound models.

The Ravenwing squad needs to just be dropped in favor of more Black Knights.  Why are you taking the whimpy little brothers and still trying to put Plasma on them?  If they were Melta, we could talk, but it's worse versions of the Black Knights, plain and simple.

Land Speeders are one of either two things.  Long distance gunners that have the ability to move only when they absolutely must, or close range burners with Twin Heavy Flamers to rack up some hits before they die horribly.  Yours are neither and won't accomplish much now that they move and hit on 4s.

Ezekiel and the Tacs need to just be dropped.  They don't help in any way, shape or form.  Use the optional slots in the other two detachments if you want more stuff.

A trick with Devestators is another Apothecary on foot and some extra dudes in the Devs squad.  Seven models or so.  Now, the Devs have extra guys to burn and the Apothecary can maybe pick them back up.  Turn your squad into 2+ armor 7 regen Wounds of annoyance in cover.  With your lack of long range stuff, I'd keep them all at Lascannons and see what you can kill.  There should always be targets for four very healthy shots.

So with these changes in mind but not adding up points, I'd be looking at:
Interrogator Chaplain in Terminator Armor
Deathwing Knights w/ Watcher
Deathwing Ancient (maybe)
Ravenwing Apothecary
Venerable Dreadnought (maybe)

Samael On Bike
Black Knights
Black Knights
Land Speeder with Flamers

Alternatively, if points are really bad, drop the Speeder and just shove it all into the Vanguard Detachment.  Takes a hit on CPs but it's doable and you have zero tax units that way.  I've kept a single backfield unit for an Objective with their Apothecary, a high threat Speeder to maybe take some fire away from your Black Knights and the now three meaty units with Samael hopefully buffing both squads at once and the Apothecary bouncing between them as needed and the Deathwing being Turn 1 pressure from Deep Strike.  Hopefully I haven't removed too much of the flavor in your playstyle with my advice but I definitely think you'll bump up competitive level.

Offline Charley359

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Re: 8th Edition Dark Angels Army list
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 06:42:10 PM »
I appreciate your comments about my bad team built.  I know when I build it I would not have much chance, and the only force I knew I would be facing during my building phase was my son and the Ultramarines.  My son in law who only owns an Eldar force changed his team 4-5 different times before I got there since he found out they could not stand up in competitive play.

The reason I choose Ezekiel was to make sure I had a psyker on the team and he was always there strongest in the past.  The Dev Squad was to give some long ranged support to the other units.  As far as changing it up to 4 lascannons I can easily do that.  My Tactical team was there to protect my home base and to give Ezekiel some cover.  That was about it. 

Since my original post I dumped Ezekiel, land speeder and venerable dreadnought to add another DW Squad to my team with a mix of close and range weapons led with a Plasma Cannon being the heavy weapon.  Also brought all 4 of my Missile Launchers and Lascannons to try both versions of the squad.  Still didn't do very good, but I now know what all of the five of them are running. 

Over the last few days while I've lost more games, I'm not as rusty as I had been.  It had been over a year since my last tourney style game and it was a friendly game.  Still not sure when I'll try a Ancient or Apothecary on their own, but I do agree with you that either a DW & RW army by itself or a pure greenwing army might be better for me then mixing all of them together.