Author Topic: (Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase  (Read 3109 times)

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Online brianstockel

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(Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase
« on: April 09, 2017, 08:09:11 AM »
https://youtu.be/APVJADDH9-k?t=442

In this video, he talks about what he confirms are changes. The assault phase was the one I thought was one of the coolest ideas for starters.

The gist of it if you don't want to look at the video is that if you declare the assault, you go first. So as an example, Orks would attack Space Marines first on the first turn of the assault. This includes your Nob with the power klaw.

I'm curious to hear thoughts about this. My thinking is it's a significant change that doesn't break the game. In 6th, the assault was nerfed so you couldn't charge out of reserves, hitting Space Wolves and drop pod armies pretty hard. The entire game shifted at that point to a shooting game and has been there ever since. As far as this change and not breaking the game, it's enough of a change to give assault armies an advantage in the phase they need it and not make shooting armies useless. Everyone still gets their overwatch, you still have to have enough bodies to survive to get into assault and you have to assault with enough to clear a large portion of your opponents guys before they hit you back.

I personally like the idea. I think it will balance the global meta a bit where either players are having to consider assault defense a little more or dust off their old Blood Angels/Orks models and try to dominate in close range combat.

Of course, this is purely speculation but I'm curious to hear other thoughts.

Lastly, as a disclaimer, I just recently popped open (finally!) my Ork Battle Force box that I purchased back in '14. I'm seriously looking forward to playing Orks if this change comes through!

Online DeffBossGitKrusha

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Re: (Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2017, 08:29:55 AM »
Quote
and drop pod armies pretty hard. 
I don't recall that being a thing. Not even in 5th edition.

As to the meat of the subject, I don't see a problem with assault in unit going first. I think the amount of shooting and the prospective Armour Saves balance it out.  Your Marines shoot at my Orks, we finally assault The nob kills a few and the Marines make most of their saves. Orks win only because they outnumber the marines and don't take enough losses. with a AoS LD system both sides test and loose models. The Marines most likely loos none due to both High LD and being Space Marines. Orks loose a few due to low LD, combat continues, next turn the Marines put a larger dent into the Orks or the Orks wip out the Marines..or the unlikely Draw.
This encourages larger unit sizes. 5 Marines isn't enough. 
It should play out roughly the same at that Level. ( Squad vs Squad)
I'm sure there are other factors we don't know yet.

A fixed movement stat will have to be something to plan around.
Good luck with your Orks! Get um built and painted!
Kickin grots sense 1996.
http://warhead01.blogspot.com/

Online Draco765

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Re: (Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 03:31:08 PM »
Necron assault units also like the idea.

Harlequins do not.

It will all come down to how far different units are able to travel in a turn, factoring in possible transport changes etc.

The rumors that have been leaked are being looked at in the light of current rule sets, when for all we know, the current rules just won't apply anymore.

Online SharkoutofWata

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Re: (Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2017, 03:43:01 PM »
Nearly every Assault based army but Orks gets shafted with this idea.  Just off the top of my head are Blood Angel Baal Strikeforces, who are put into a Detachment to get a +1 Initiative on the charge that is now useless.  Or Genestealers, who are paying points per model for their I6 and getting no benefit.  Weapon based Initiative bonuses, Metamorph and Lash Whips are useless.  In Cult armies, there'd be no reason to take anything but Acolytes if the only thing that matters is who gets the charge.  Why pay 14pts when I can pay 8pts for the same three Rending attacks.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 06:23:36 PM by SharkoutofWata »

Online Sensenbob

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Re: (Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 12:23:02 AM »
I think this shows that if this one thing is changed there would have to be a lot more changes for all armies across the board. Also it would make Counter-Charge units quite more powerful!

Atm i really don't see things like PowerKlaws and Thunder Hammers going first, that would be mean!
=Blood Angels=

Online DeffBossGitKrusha

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Re: (Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 05:53:30 AM »
I think this shows that if this one thing is changed there would have to be a lot more changes for all armies across the board. Also it would make Counter-Charge units quite more powerful!

Atm i really don't see things like PowerKlaws and Thunder Hammers going first, that would be mean!
I can agree with you but your last part seems to be in current think, not "new think". lol. For all we know those weapons will act differently than they do now.
I am fairly sure those weapons used to work at inish during 2nd. So who knows.
Kickin grots sense 1996.
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Online brianstockel

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Re: (Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 04:30:46 AM »
https://youtu.be/NXD4X41OGZk?t=32m30s

The Glacial Geek makes a logical argument for having the assaulter go first.

Couple of reasons why people don't like the idea in the response comments but there has to be some positive to it. The idea that you might get some sort of "First Strike" USR which either raises your initiative value on the first turn of combat or simply lets you strike first in the turn you make a charge.

Online DeffBossGitKrusha

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Re: (Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 08:38:03 AM »
Interesting video.
I subscribed, have to see what else he's got going on.

At one point he says maybe a _1 or _2 to inish. I don't like that and hope it is actually charging unit strikes first. Only gaining a +1 or +2 doesn't do very much, or I should say, enough. Orks been bumped up to a 3 or 4 is hardly good for them, mostly I mean if their weapons work like they work now...Poorly.
Orks had a double inish rule back in their 3rd edition codex but they also had rules that hurt any save better than a 4+. So going at the same time as Marines worked well enough. Back in those days My Orks were charged more often than they got to charge.
If the charging unit and every weapon in it get to strike first I'm all for it. It helps my Orks and things are other wise normal if My unit is charged by anything.
My friends Dark Furies rush in with a billion Lightning claw attacks and 30 boys up and evaporate. Just being able to swing before that kind of unit will go a long way, even though I don't expect to wipe out a powered armoured unit anymore.

Still, there's a lot we don't know yet and I'm looking forward to seeing more rumors.
Kickin grots sense 1996.
http://warhead01.blogspot.com/

Online brianstockel

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Re: (Potential) Changes to the Assault Phase
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 06:33:31 PM »
I'm looking forward to some sort of change as well.

I wish WH40k had a sort of pre-game talk show. With the anticipated/expected changes, you would think there would be some chatter about potential lists and stand-out units based on speculation.